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[Music]

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it was basically a cube with inside of

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sphere where the points of the cube

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[Music]

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[Applause]

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so this isn't anything that just is

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limited to the united states it's a

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hi everyone and welcome back to that ufo

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podcast my name is andy i'm delighted to

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welcome with me a professor at stanford

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university school of medicine his

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research is in microbiology immunology

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biocomputation and analysis of ufo

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artifacts materials and also reports of

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ufo encounters i have the one and only

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professor gary nolan gary welcome to the

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podcast

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thank you very much i'm looking forward

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to the discussion

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as to gary very popular guest as soon as

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we announced you were coming on it's

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been quite exciting a lot of listener

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interest as well so hopefully we can do

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that some justice for those who are

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listening and watching along gary i want

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to know first a little bit about your

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your early experiences of the ufo

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subject

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as a child growing up did you have any

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favorite books tvs or movies that were

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influences and what became a bit of a

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passion of yours

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well i've always been interested in

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science fiction i mean i think some of

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the first books that i ever read were

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sci-fi mostly arthur c clarke

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uh and isaac asimov so you know i'm i'm

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a child of the 60s if you will so at

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that time the big time uh science

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fiction writers were those two heinlein

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uh larry niven

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etc and

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they

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pretty much taught me frankly a lot

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about the way the universe might be

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constructed because they were all what

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you would call hard science fiction

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writers as opposed to the more social

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sciences types so that they would base

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their stories

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largely around some sort of scientific

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principle a novel one usually they would

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propose like you know isaac asimov's the

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laws of robotics and things like that

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uh and uh so that pretty much

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settled me in terms of my my kinds of

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interests in fiction but it kind of went

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a little bit beyond fiction in that

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you could see

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many of these things becoming a reality

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and it's almost a trope these days

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that you know science fiction becomes

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reality and the science fiction is

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really just a prediction of what's to

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come so

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that always was i guess the center of my

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fantasy mental life

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uh if you will

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arthur c clarke said himself that any

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sufficiently advanced technology would

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be indistinguishable from magic and that

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certainly sounds like something you've

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kept going throughout your career with

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some of the reported things you've had

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your hands on and got to study and just

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the work you've done

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i want to get right into talking about a

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recent podcast appearance of yours was

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on lex friedman and that was a

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fascinating wonderful discussion you

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spoke about dna

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and how it's almost a perfect memory

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system now i am far from the mind and

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the genius that lex foodman has so it'll

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be a bit more layman's terms here you

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talked about how three billion bits of

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information don't make up gary or lex or

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or andy and that's a really interesting

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way to think of it do you think we are

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created for our environment or

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are we a product of evolution or maybe a

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little bit of both

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well i i don't like to get into

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anthropomorphisms as to whether we are

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created

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per se

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let's just say that the environment is

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such that it allowed for something like

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us

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to

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become

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right so

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you know the the universe is constructed

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in a way that allows for life to live

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now

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how it was constructed

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whether it was purposefully constructed

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by something or whether it was just

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fundamentally a part of reality that

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meant it had to happen those are two

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very different things one implies an

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intent

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the other is just this is how it is and

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it has to be um now why it has to be and

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i'll leave that to the physicists and to

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the philosophers

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you know i'm just going to deal with

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what is

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that if they and and this borrows

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quite heavily from uh the selfish gene

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hypothesis

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that if you can access resources and

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make more copies of something

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you will right so that's the whole

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selfish gene idea

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that

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um

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given a limited amount of

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opportunity

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but an infinite amount of time for

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something to occur

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uh if it does occur in a way that allows

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for it then to self-perpetuate and it

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has

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access to resources it will so you don't

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need any

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uh

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other reason than

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um

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the ability to self-replicate

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for something to begin to self-replicate

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and once something starts to

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self-replicate

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it then comes into competition with

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other things that are trying to

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self-replicate and that's where

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evolution happens right that's where you

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start to vary uh the way that you

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replicate uh super to out-compete

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something else and this becomes

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especially important as resources become

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limited

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right or liv or not much reason for

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evolution but once resources start

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getting

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uh limited that's when evolution occurs

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louis elizondo a colleague of yours has

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talked about the idea on on several

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podcasts and other interviews recently

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that around 70 000 years ago our species

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hit an an exponential boost in

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development that propelled us to where

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we are now

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we also see similar boosts in evolution

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at times like the cambrian explosion

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event about 570 to 530 million years ago

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do you think there could have been a

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helping hand here to help us develop to

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where we are

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no again i i mean i mean yes there could

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have been

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um but

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again going back to the notion of

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complexity that and what's called

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emergent order is that the cambrian

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explosion at least from a genetic point

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of view

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uh

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looks like a place where suddenly the

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building blocks got complicated enough

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that you could put them together in ways

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that were extraordinarily unique it's

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kind of like you know playing some of

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those sims games that people do as you

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as you build more and more complicated

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objects in the sims game you get to put

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them together in far more complicated

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ways to build much more sophisticated

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structures and that's pretty much what

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we think happened during the time of the

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cambrian explosion that genetic modules

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had evolved

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that were

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so useful that you could mix and match

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them in so many different ways that you

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could create the incredible diversity of

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what people saw uh in the animal fauna

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and the flora kingdoms at the time

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so you know similarly

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you could think about perhaps something

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like that happening in human evolution

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that you had humans

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of different tribes uh and different

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subspecies that we all know now existed

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having let's say reached a level of

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mental complexity and the modules of the

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brain of

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that suddenly by

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them

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inter-breeding with each other could

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create forms of brain structure that

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would leap you ahead of the

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of the underlying

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parental

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species and it's called hybrid vigor in

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in one way that you bring together two

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things that uh you know weren't

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interacting before and so you could just

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as easily explain

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that leap ahead by sudden by bringing

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together fundamental modules that by

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themselves didn't do very much but then

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in one individual

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or individuals that two tribes might

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meet for instance and suddenly the

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the daughters and sons of that tribe

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were so much better than either of the

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parents that they were in and of

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themselves capable of exploding out into

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the rest of the world

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so you don't have to and and so if you

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don't have to

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postulate an intervening hand

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then uh

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why

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somebody shows me a video

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of you know of

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some

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speed alien intervention but i don't

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think you need to you don't need to go

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there yet

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are there any particular times

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in the human evolution that you look to

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and think there's been a growth or a

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change that isn't so easily explained or

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as you've kind of said do you think it's

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a case of it happened because it could

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happen

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yeah i i mean

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i think people point to the 70 000 year

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time frame

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mostly because the archaeological record

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suggests a sudden increase in societal

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interactions that allowed for

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trade

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the making of

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objects

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the building of our communities

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and so you know it's it you have to look

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at it as well it's it's not just say the

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genetic aspect of it it's building up uh

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let's say a a verbal oral history

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uh of wisdom if you will that could be

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passed down generation to generation

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right and so again it's like this idea

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of there's a you can think of it maybe

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as a cambrian explosion

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uh at the you know a hundred thousand

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ish years or so ago of both societal uh

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knowledge wisdom along with the capacity

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to understand it right the putting

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together of brain modules and brain

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abilities

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uh that you know i mean happened i

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believe through mutation obviously

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um so you know but but let's

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take a different step back and say

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you know

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let's say that you wanted

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to postulate

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a higher intelligence involvement in

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human history

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that that involvement doesn't need to be

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a genetic engineering manipulation event

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it could just be purposefully putting

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together tribes with the right features

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that when bred together

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would have a higher

289
00:11:13,350 --> 00:11:12,000
uh or a better um

290
00:11:15,509 --> 00:11:13,360
set of

291
00:11:17,430 --> 00:11:15,519
what we call phenotypes brain phenotypes

292
00:11:18,470 --> 00:11:17,440
or whatever than either of the parental

293
00:11:20,470 --> 00:11:18,480
tribes

294
00:11:21,829 --> 00:11:20,480
right so you could guide

295
00:11:23,829 --> 00:11:21,839
groups together

296
00:11:24,790 --> 00:11:23,839
uh in ways and you could put them

297
00:11:26,550 --> 00:11:24,800
through

298
00:11:28,870 --> 00:11:26,560
let's say

299
00:11:30,790 --> 00:11:28,880
wars you force them into wars to wean

300
00:11:32,630 --> 00:11:30,800
out the strong

301
00:11:34,389 --> 00:11:32,640
uh you know so you could you could do it

302
00:11:35,590 --> 00:11:34,399
without a single bit of intervention i

303
00:11:37,110 --> 00:11:35,600
mean just look at what we've done with

304
00:11:39,350 --> 00:11:37,120
dogs

305
00:11:41,670 --> 00:11:39,360
over just a few thousand years we've

306
00:11:44,150 --> 00:11:41,680
taken them from wolves to everything

307
00:11:45,190 --> 00:11:44,160
from fluffy little balls of pomeranian

308
00:11:48,550 --> 00:11:45,200
to

309
00:11:51,030 --> 00:11:48,560
you know giant mastiffs

310
00:11:53,430 --> 00:11:51,040
and i mean dogs are particularly

311
00:11:55,750 --> 00:11:53,440
pliable because of some genetic elements

312
00:11:57,110 --> 00:11:55,760
in their dna that allows for that kind

313
00:11:59,509 --> 00:11:57,120
of pliability

314
00:12:01,350 --> 00:11:59,519
unlike cats for instance you can't

315
00:12:04,230 --> 00:12:01,360
manipulate cat evolution quite as

316
00:12:06,870 --> 00:12:04,240
quickly as you can dogs but

317
00:12:09,030 --> 00:12:06,880
you know i mean that's what that's what

318
00:12:11,670 --> 00:12:09,040
i think could have been you don't have

319
00:12:13,750 --> 00:12:11,680
to say they specifically intervened in

320
00:12:17,509 --> 00:12:13,760
this way and anything of a higher

321
00:12:18,710 --> 00:12:17,519
intelligence frankly is not going to

322
00:12:20,470 --> 00:12:18,720
need to

323
00:12:22,470 --> 00:12:20,480
use the kind of crude genetic

324
00:12:24,790 --> 00:12:22,480
engineering that we use

325
00:12:26,949 --> 00:12:24,800
it could it would be far more subtle

326
00:12:30,310 --> 00:12:26,959
than what we're doing and and that kind

327
00:12:33,350 --> 00:12:30,320
of loops back to my discussions with lex

328
00:12:35,590 --> 00:12:33,360
about the compacted information inside

329
00:12:39,910 --> 00:12:35,600
of human dna

330
00:12:42,710 --> 00:12:39,920
this idea that um i mean human dna is

331
00:12:44,069 --> 00:12:42,720
is a zip file right within a zip file

332
00:12:46,790 --> 00:12:44,079
within a zip file within a zip file

333
00:12:49,829 --> 00:12:46,800
within a zip file you know ad infinitum

334
00:12:52,470 --> 00:12:49,839
and each layer of the unpacking as i had

335
00:12:54,389 --> 00:12:52,480
said there expects a context so the

336
00:12:55,750 --> 00:12:54,399
unpacking program

337
00:12:57,110 --> 00:12:55,760
the the zip

338
00:12:58,710 --> 00:12:57,120
unzipper

339
00:13:01,750 --> 00:12:58,720
uh is the

340
00:13:04,550 --> 00:13:01,760
is the point in time at which the dna is

341
00:13:06,790 --> 00:13:04,560
present in the cell at a stage of

342
00:13:07,910 --> 00:13:06,800
development of the egg to

343
00:13:10,710 --> 00:13:07,920
a baby

344
00:13:13,430 --> 00:13:10,720
right and so the zip file is unzipped in

345
00:13:15,829 --> 00:13:13,440
different ways in different cells but

346
00:13:17,590 --> 00:13:15,839
there's new information every time

347
00:13:20,310 --> 00:13:17,600
it unzips it

348
00:13:22,550 --> 00:13:20,320
and yet as i said before it's it's it's

349
00:13:25,990 --> 00:13:22,560
only three billion base pairs long and

350
00:13:27,350 --> 00:13:26,000
yet there is 10 to the

351
00:13:29,910 --> 00:13:27,360
gazillionth

352
00:13:30,629 --> 00:13:29,920
power of information somehow packed into

353
00:13:36,069 --> 00:13:30,639
it

354
00:13:37,110 --> 00:13:36,079
to

355
00:13:40,629 --> 00:13:37,120
mold

356
00:13:41,829 --> 00:13:40,639
the dna into certain outcomes so the

357
00:13:43,829 --> 00:13:41,839
universe

358
00:13:44,949 --> 00:13:43,839
in a way is part of the unzipping

359
00:13:47,110 --> 00:13:44,959
program

360
00:13:47,910 --> 00:13:47,120
uh that the cells

361
00:13:49,910 --> 00:13:47,920
at the

362
00:13:53,269 --> 00:13:49,920
origination point of an egg

363
00:13:54,949 --> 00:13:53,279
uses to unzip and then divide and now

364
00:13:56,470 --> 00:13:54,959
it's two and then now it's becoming the

365
00:13:58,310 --> 00:13:56,480
top of the body in the bottom of the

366
00:13:59,430 --> 00:13:58,320
body the head etc

367
00:14:02,470 --> 00:13:59,440
and so

368
00:14:05,430 --> 00:14:02,480
to me that's fascinating because

369
00:14:06,710 --> 00:14:05,440
again now now let's go to this idea of a

370
00:14:09,350 --> 00:14:06,720
higher level

371
00:14:11,990 --> 00:14:09,360
intelligence intervention

372
00:14:13,509 --> 00:14:12,000
to manipulate

373
00:14:16,949 --> 00:14:13,519
a human

374
00:14:20,310 --> 00:14:16,959
body to evolve something better

375
00:14:21,990 --> 00:14:20,320
requires a near god-like level of

376
00:14:25,590 --> 00:14:22,000
understanding

377
00:14:28,150 --> 00:14:25,600
to do the manipulation so that when you

378
00:14:31,670 --> 00:14:28,160
you put you change this dna here

379
00:14:34,310 --> 00:14:31,680
this base pair here it it will have

380
00:14:35,990 --> 00:14:34,320
resonating effects up and down the whole

381
00:14:38,389 --> 00:14:36,000
growth of the body so you have to

382
00:14:40,949 --> 00:14:38,399
somehow encompass a knowledge of that

383
00:14:43,590 --> 00:14:40,959
one change might have a disastrous

384
00:14:44,790 --> 00:14:43,600
effect later on in development of the

385
00:14:45,509 --> 00:14:44,800
brain

386
00:14:48,790 --> 00:14:45,519
so

387
00:14:50,949 --> 00:14:48,800
can't do right now i mean there's a

388
00:14:52,710 --> 00:14:50,959
there's a whole branch of biology called

389
00:14:54,870 --> 00:14:52,720
synthetic biology

390
00:14:56,949 --> 00:14:54,880
where they're basically starting it with

391
00:15:01,110 --> 00:14:56,959
with bacteria where we're trying to

392
00:15:04,069 --> 00:15:01,120
engineer organisms in the simplest ways

393
00:15:06,389 --> 00:15:04,079
but usually it's one gene at a time it's

394
00:15:09,430 --> 00:15:06,399
not an organismal

395
00:15:13,910 --> 00:15:09,440
systems-wide alteration because it

396
00:15:17,590 --> 00:15:13,920
requires that level of uh gestalt

397
00:15:20,069 --> 00:15:17,600
to understand all of that and so um

398
00:15:22,230 --> 00:15:20,079
so if you are going to postulate an

399
00:15:24,230 --> 00:15:22,240
intelligence at that level

400
00:15:26,310 --> 00:15:24,240
that's capable of doing that

401
00:15:28,949 --> 00:15:26,320
the changes that it would it would

402
00:15:30,870 --> 00:15:28,959
introduce would be so subtle

403
00:15:32,629 --> 00:15:30,880
that there's no

404
00:15:34,790 --> 00:15:32,639
ability today

405
00:15:36,389 --> 00:15:34,800
to see it

406
00:15:38,870 --> 00:15:36,399
it's really interesting because many

407
00:15:41,030 --> 00:15:38,880
people including myself when we think of

408
00:15:43,509 --> 00:15:41,040
the potential not saying it happens but

409
00:15:46,389 --> 00:15:43,519
the potential for another intelligence

410
00:15:48,389 --> 00:15:46,399
to manipulate us as a species would be

411
00:15:50,550 --> 00:15:48,399
direct and it would happen now and we

412
00:15:52,310 --> 00:15:50,560
hear about abductions and those sorts of

413
00:15:54,790 --> 00:15:52,320
things so do you think there would be

414
00:15:57,590 --> 00:15:54,800
more chance that if something was so

415
00:15:59,590 --> 00:15:57,600
capable technologically that all of

416
00:16:01,590 --> 00:15:59,600
those manipulations could have been done

417
00:16:03,829 --> 00:16:01,600
way way back at the start and like you

418
00:16:06,389 --> 00:16:03,839
see it left in various zip files to

419
00:16:08,550 --> 00:16:06,399
happen at various different times that

420
00:16:10,310 --> 00:16:08,560
was those intelligences could be could

421
00:16:13,749 --> 00:16:10,320
be long gone

422
00:16:15,509 --> 00:16:13,759
could basically have set it on a path

423
00:16:16,790 --> 00:16:15,519
that only needs occasional intervention

424
00:16:20,230 --> 00:16:16,800
again

425
00:16:22,389 --> 00:16:20,240
right i mean that's perfectly fine to to

426
00:16:24,069 --> 00:16:22,399
think about that you know you nudge it

427
00:16:25,350 --> 00:16:24,079
here you nudge it there

428
00:16:28,069 --> 00:16:25,360
um

429
00:16:29,189 --> 00:16:28,079
you know but but it it also comes back

430
00:16:31,350 --> 00:16:29,199
to

431
00:16:32,949 --> 00:16:31,360
jacques vale's control system

432
00:16:36,629 --> 00:16:32,959
right where he talks about the control

433
00:16:38,629 --> 00:16:36,639
system as a as a system of systems that

434
00:16:39,509 --> 00:16:38,639
is uh

435
00:16:42,389 --> 00:16:39,519
in a

436
00:16:44,790 --> 00:16:42,399
continual reinforcement pattern of doing

437
00:16:46,949 --> 00:16:44,800
something nudging seeing the effect

438
00:16:51,110 --> 00:16:46,959
looking for the feedback nudging again

439
00:16:52,629 --> 00:16:51,120
nudging again all driving humanity in a

440
00:16:54,870 --> 00:16:52,639
certain direction

441
00:16:56,790 --> 00:16:54,880
um now it

442
00:16:58,629 --> 00:16:56,800
it appears that that's what's happening

443
00:17:01,430 --> 00:16:58,639
at least from the way that jacques will

444
00:17:03,829 --> 00:17:01,440
talk about often talks about it but

445
00:17:05,350 --> 00:17:03,839
um from a human evolution point of view

446
00:17:08,309 --> 00:17:05,360
you could say that this is what's

447
00:17:10,069 --> 00:17:08,319
happening but again

448
00:17:12,949 --> 00:17:10,079
and i'm not disagreeing with it i'm just

449
00:17:14,949 --> 00:17:12,959
saying that we have to be careful not to

450
00:17:15,909 --> 00:17:14,959
claim that that's what's happening

451
00:17:19,429 --> 00:17:15,919
because

452
00:17:21,590 --> 00:17:19,439
there are perfectly normal ways

453
00:17:22,309 --> 00:17:21,600
let's say mainstream ways to talk about

454
00:17:26,870 --> 00:17:22,319
it

455
00:17:29,029 --> 00:17:26,880
that you know so you you can't say that

456
00:17:31,029 --> 00:17:29,039
the mainstream ways yet

457
00:17:32,470 --> 00:17:31,039
that even i can come up with

458
00:17:33,990 --> 00:17:32,480
uh are

459
00:17:35,270 --> 00:17:34,000
wrong

460
00:17:37,350 --> 00:17:35,280
uh so

461
00:17:38,870 --> 00:17:37,360
i i don't want to give my colleagues a

462
00:17:40,230 --> 00:17:38,880
reason to point out the things that i

463
00:17:43,590 --> 00:17:40,240
already know

464
00:17:47,110 --> 00:17:43,600
are potentially an explanation

465
00:17:49,350 --> 00:17:47,120
so it's it's it's

466
00:17:51,750 --> 00:17:49,360
you know the control system is and shock

467
00:17:53,430 --> 00:17:51,760
will probably kill me for saying this

468
00:17:56,789 --> 00:17:53,440
i i is

469
00:17:59,270 --> 00:17:56,799
is almost as

470
00:18:03,270 --> 00:17:59,280
easy as claiming it's got

471
00:18:05,669 --> 00:18:03,280
right it's a uh it's a deus ex machina

472
00:18:07,830 --> 00:18:05,679
uh that we want to be careful

473
00:18:09,110 --> 00:18:07,840
where and when we

474
00:18:11,669 --> 00:18:09,120
deploy it

475
00:18:13,029 --> 00:18:11,679
to explain things that we're seeing

476
00:18:14,789 --> 00:18:13,039
does that make sense

477
00:18:16,310 --> 00:18:14,799
yes it does yeah and i'm sure it makes

478
00:18:18,070 --> 00:18:16,320
even more sense to the more intelligent

479
00:18:19,669 --> 00:18:18,080
listeners out there as well oh i'm sure

480
00:18:21,350 --> 00:18:19,679
you're fine

481
00:18:23,110 --> 00:18:21,360
you have a big forehead it must be a

482
00:18:24,549 --> 00:18:23,120
brain in there somewhere i think it's

483
00:18:26,310 --> 00:18:24,559
the bad light and then here it's the bad

484
00:18:28,630 --> 00:18:26,320
light

485
00:18:30,870 --> 00:18:28,640
gary i want to ask about you've talked

486
00:18:32,950 --> 00:18:30,880
about how we as a species have developed

487
00:18:35,110 --> 00:18:32,960
and i want to know your thoughts on and

488
00:18:37,110 --> 00:18:35,120
what another intelligent life form could

489
00:18:39,190 --> 00:18:37,120
potentially look like

490
00:18:41,190 --> 00:18:39,200
in various hollywood films you see it

491
00:18:43,110 --> 00:18:41,200
interpreted in different ways

492
00:18:45,669 --> 00:18:43,120
an arrival there's a species that

493
00:18:47,830 --> 00:18:45,679
experience time different to us and

494
00:18:50,470 --> 00:18:47,840
annihilation that the shimmer is not

495
00:18:52,230 --> 00:18:50,480
under understandable to us what do you

496
00:18:54,310 --> 00:18:52,240
think it would be likely another

497
00:18:56,789 --> 00:18:54,320
intelligent species could look like or

498
00:18:58,310 --> 00:18:56,799
are the possibilities just too infinite

499
00:19:00,630 --> 00:18:58,320
uh well i think they're in they're

500
00:19:01,669 --> 00:19:00,640
infinite i mean take any animal in our

501
00:19:04,390 --> 00:19:01,679
ocean

502
00:19:06,789 --> 00:19:04,400
uh and uh you know

503
00:19:08,310 --> 00:19:06,799
basically give it a reason for creating

504
00:19:12,230 --> 00:19:08,320
a society

505
00:19:16,150 --> 00:19:12,240
and uh or have an oral history

506
00:19:18,630 --> 00:19:16,160
uh that it can pass to its children

507
00:19:21,270 --> 00:19:18,640
um and

508
00:19:23,669 --> 00:19:21,280
you know and and so therefore time

509
00:19:26,710 --> 00:19:23,679
doesn't become a limitation in terms of

510
00:19:28,710 --> 00:19:26,720
achievement levels that can be um

511
00:19:30,870 --> 00:19:28,720
obtained attained

512
00:19:32,390 --> 00:19:30,880
uh and and you can create an

513
00:19:35,750 --> 00:19:32,400
intelligence i mean you know we all look

514
00:19:36,870 --> 00:19:35,760
at at octopuses as probably one of the

515
00:19:38,870 --> 00:19:36,880
most

516
00:19:40,789 --> 00:19:38,880
interesting next

517
00:19:42,390 --> 00:19:40,799
intelligences on the planet i mean

518
00:19:43,750 --> 00:19:42,400
obviously other than the cetaceans the

519
00:19:46,950 --> 00:19:43,760
cetaceans are

520
00:19:49,990 --> 00:19:46,960
are you know dolphins and whales are

521
00:19:53,510 --> 00:19:50,000
obviously intelligent

522
00:19:54,230 --> 00:19:53,520
elephants are intelligent uh

523
00:19:56,390 --> 00:19:54,240
the

524
00:19:57,830 --> 00:19:56,400
uh i i mean i can't even eat octopus

525
00:19:59,830 --> 00:19:57,840
anymore because

526
00:20:03,029 --> 00:19:59,840
you know of that damn movie my my

527
00:20:05,110 --> 00:20:03,039
octopus friend or whatever

528
00:20:07,750 --> 00:20:05,120
you know um

529
00:20:10,149 --> 00:20:07,760
it's uh and here you have a distributed

530
00:20:11,590 --> 00:20:10,159
nervous system in the

531
00:20:13,830 --> 00:20:11,600
in the octopus it doesn't have a central

532
00:20:16,470 --> 00:20:13,840
brain like we do it has distributed

533
00:20:19,350 --> 00:20:16,480
nervous systems so you know

534
00:20:21,029 --> 00:20:19,360
what kind of intelligence would evolve

535
00:20:23,830 --> 00:20:21,039
out of that

536
00:20:25,750 --> 00:20:23,840
something that would have what how many

537
00:20:26,549 --> 00:20:25,760
tentacles do most octopus have i don't

538
00:20:29,270 --> 00:20:26,559
know

539
00:20:31,270 --> 00:20:29,280
uh but they have basically let's say 10

540
00:20:32,470 --> 00:20:31,280
sub brains in addition to their main

541
00:20:33,270 --> 00:20:32,480
brain

542
00:20:34,950 --> 00:20:33,280
so

543
00:20:36,789 --> 00:20:34,960
you know as that

544
00:20:38,549 --> 00:20:36,799
as an intelligence like that began to

545
00:20:40,070 --> 00:20:38,559
evolve you could imagine different of

546
00:20:42,950 --> 00:20:40,080
those sub-brains taking on different

547
00:20:45,990 --> 00:20:42,960
functions like our brain has what are

548
00:20:49,430 --> 00:20:46,000
called nuclei within them those are all

549
00:20:51,510 --> 00:20:49,440
condensed regions of neural interactions

550
00:20:52,870 --> 00:20:51,520
little circuitries that carry out

551
00:20:54,390 --> 00:20:52,880
different functions one was a memory

552
00:20:56,789 --> 00:20:54,400
system another is

553
00:20:58,230 --> 00:20:56,799
fear another is computation another is

554
00:21:00,830 --> 00:20:58,240
where you think your consciousness

555
00:21:06,549 --> 00:21:03,909
um would an octopus have a distributed

556
00:21:08,310 --> 00:21:06,559
consciousness around all of those

557
00:21:09,909 --> 00:21:08,320
sub-brains

558
00:21:12,149 --> 00:21:09,919
would one of them be the subconscious

559
00:21:13,990 --> 00:21:12,159
and the other be the conscious

560
00:21:16,230 --> 00:21:14,000
you know you can i mean just reading

561
00:21:17,990 --> 00:21:16,240
science fiction and this is what i get

562
00:21:21,830 --> 00:21:18,000
my jollies out of

563
00:21:25,990 --> 00:21:21,840
is uh is where readers where writers

564
00:21:27,510 --> 00:21:26,000
like larry niven or or david brin or um

565
00:21:31,110 --> 00:21:27,520
verner divinge

566
00:21:34,549 --> 00:21:31,120
uh they start with an evolutionary

567
00:21:36,549 --> 00:21:34,559
assumption about an animal that is

568
00:21:39,830 --> 00:21:36,559
becoming intelligent

569
00:21:41,990 --> 00:21:39,840
uh and then they take it to the extreme

570
00:21:45,350 --> 00:21:42,000
of what the civilizational principles

571
00:21:47,510 --> 00:21:45,360
would be for that animal

572
00:21:48,950 --> 00:21:47,520
right still began life as an animal and

573
00:21:52,789 --> 00:21:48,960
a lot of these books

574
00:21:56,070 --> 00:21:52,799
are all about the conflict between

575
00:21:59,830 --> 00:21:56,080
what intelligence demands versus what

576
00:22:02,070 --> 00:21:59,840
the evolutionary background limits

577
00:22:05,029 --> 00:22:02,080
like our evolutionary background limits

578
00:22:06,789 --> 00:22:05,039
us to certain kinds of monkey behaviors

579
00:22:09,350 --> 00:22:06,799
and certain kinds of

580
00:22:11,909 --> 00:22:09,360
tribal interactions

581
00:22:13,270 --> 00:22:11,919
you know the in larry niven's books the

582
00:22:15,350 --> 00:22:13,280
puppeteers

583
00:22:16,870 --> 00:22:15,360
are derived from

584
00:22:22,070 --> 00:22:16,880
a herd animal

585
00:22:24,310 --> 00:22:22,080
his cases they lead from behind so

586
00:22:27,430 --> 00:22:24,320
cowardice is the moral principle run

587
00:22:28,950 --> 00:22:27,440
away first don't fight

588
00:22:30,230 --> 00:22:28,960
uh and yet

589
00:22:31,990 --> 00:22:30,240
you know he writes about how they

590
00:22:33,750 --> 00:22:32,000
achieved intelligence a million years

591
00:22:35,590 --> 00:22:33,760
ahead of humans

592
00:22:39,270 --> 00:22:35,600
uh and they're you know they're pretty

593
00:22:41,270 --> 00:22:39,280
manipulative machiavellian characters

594
00:22:43,669 --> 00:22:41,280
i'm glad you mentioned the oceans and

595
00:22:47,110 --> 00:22:43,679
talking about octopus and

596
00:22:49,110 --> 00:22:47,120
there are a lot of discussions about uap

597
00:22:51,909 --> 00:22:49,120
and potential craft

598
00:22:54,149 --> 00:22:51,919
either being from our oceans or at least

599
00:22:56,789 --> 00:22:54,159
using them as a place to hide the now

600
00:22:58,789 --> 00:22:56,799
infamous tic-tac events 2004 the objects

601
00:23:01,110 --> 00:22:58,799
were seen going in and out of the water

602
00:23:03,350 --> 00:23:01,120
and we've heard more recently in 2019

603
00:23:05,750 --> 00:23:03,360
again objects being found going into the

604
00:23:07,270 --> 00:23:05,760
water and disappearing or at least not

605
00:23:09,110 --> 00:23:07,280
being found

606
00:23:11,669 --> 00:23:09,120
what do you think the chances are that

607
00:23:13,750 --> 00:23:11,679
given life began within the oceans that

608
00:23:16,390 --> 00:23:13,760
something else could have evolved ahead

609
00:23:18,870 --> 00:23:16,400
of us as a species and potentially be

610
00:23:21,350 --> 00:23:18,880
the occupants of potential craft that we

611
00:23:23,590 --> 00:23:21,360
now see in our skies

612
00:23:25,510 --> 00:23:23,600
i have no problem with that you know i i

613
00:23:28,230 --> 00:23:25,520
don't think they have to have i mean we

614
00:23:30,549 --> 00:23:28,240
evolved originally in the oceans um i

615
00:23:32,390 --> 00:23:30,559
don't think they had to have had uh an

616
00:23:33,909 --> 00:23:32,400
evolutionary start

617
00:23:35,830 --> 00:23:33,919
uh or

618
00:23:38,230 --> 00:23:35,840
they didn't need to achieve a

619
00:23:40,310 --> 00:23:38,240
civilization that was under water

620
00:23:41,669 --> 00:23:40,320
that could have been on land and then

621
00:23:43,830 --> 00:23:41,679
they decided

622
00:23:45,909 --> 00:23:43,840
well you know why do we need the surface

623
00:23:48,630 --> 00:23:45,919
there we can create a hundred

624
00:23:50,630 --> 00:23:48,640
earths you know every you know every

625
00:23:52,230 --> 00:23:50,640
five miles under the earth we could

626
00:23:55,350 --> 00:23:52,240
create caverns

627
00:23:57,190 --> 00:23:55,360
and live down there create our own light

628
00:23:59,430 --> 00:23:57,200
there's plenty of energy you know in the

629
00:24:01,110 --> 00:23:59,440
molten core that we could take advantage

630
00:24:03,750 --> 00:24:01,120
of and never have to see the surface

631
00:24:06,549 --> 00:24:03,760
again we'll leave the surface to

632
00:24:08,789 --> 00:24:06,559
you know to uh the animals and let

633
00:24:10,710 --> 00:24:08,799
something else evolve

634
00:24:13,510 --> 00:24:10,720
you know david bryn's books are

635
00:24:15,350 --> 00:24:13,520
fascinating because

636
00:24:16,390 --> 00:24:15,360
he actually takes a more interventional

637
00:24:20,470 --> 00:24:16,400
approach

638
00:24:22,710 --> 00:24:20,480
where uh the species around the galaxies

639
00:24:24,789 --> 00:24:22,720
will search out new planets where

640
00:24:27,190 --> 00:24:24,799
there's a sub-sentient

641
00:24:29,110 --> 00:24:27,200
uh species

642
00:24:30,310 --> 00:24:29,120
almost ready to be

643
00:24:31,350 --> 00:24:30,320
ascended

644
00:24:33,510 --> 00:24:31,360
and

645
00:24:37,430 --> 00:24:33,520
they will then claim that planet

646
00:24:40,470 --> 00:24:37,440
ascend the species uh and they would put

647
00:24:42,549 --> 00:24:40,480
the species under servitude for you know

648
00:24:44,070 --> 00:24:42,559
half a million years uh but then they

649
00:24:45,430 --> 00:24:44,080
become part of a clan and then it's all

650
00:24:47,190 --> 00:24:45,440
about the clans interacting with other

651
00:24:48,950 --> 00:24:47,200
clans and the whole objective is to

652
00:24:49,990 --> 00:24:48,960
collect as many species as you can to

653
00:24:52,950 --> 00:24:50,000
make your

654
00:24:55,190 --> 00:24:52,960
tribe of species larger

655
00:24:58,149 --> 00:24:55,200
right and but again each of those

656
00:24:59,350 --> 00:24:58,159
species is limited by their evolutionary

657
00:25:01,430 --> 00:24:59,360
past

658
00:25:03,990 --> 00:25:01,440
and it's used to predict and so i i just

659
00:25:06,149 --> 00:25:04,000
find that a fascinating approach and

660
00:25:08,630 --> 00:25:06,159
it's in many ways prepared me

661
00:25:10,230 --> 00:25:08,640
to be very open-minded about what it is

662
00:25:13,350 --> 00:25:10,240
we might be dealing with today in the

663
00:25:14,789 --> 00:25:13,360
uaps that are being seen

664
00:25:16,789 --> 00:25:14,799
to take that a step further we're

665
00:25:19,190 --> 00:25:16,799
talking about the oceans the skies and

666
00:25:21,029 --> 00:25:19,200
obviously the land as well however given

667
00:25:23,590 --> 00:25:21,039
the breadth of the electromagnetic

668
00:25:25,750 --> 00:25:23,600
spectrum what do you think of that about

669
00:25:28,230 --> 00:25:25,760
the idea of life being present in other

670
00:25:30,470 --> 00:25:28,240
parts of it but unable to interact with

671
00:25:33,590 --> 00:25:30,480
us and is it possible something could

672
00:25:34,950 --> 00:25:33,600
see us whilst we simply can't see them

673
00:25:37,190 --> 00:25:34,960
yeah i mean

674
00:25:40,549 --> 00:25:37,200
you know i mean this gets into

675
00:25:42,149 --> 00:25:40,559
realms of physics where people

676
00:25:44,230 --> 00:25:42,159
you know like to talk about things like

677
00:25:45,990 --> 00:25:44,240
multiverses and all the rest i mean it's

678
00:25:46,870 --> 00:25:46,000
part of the zeitgeist

679
00:25:48,630 --> 00:25:46,880
with

680
00:25:50,789 --> 00:25:48,640
the the multiverse there's like two or

681
00:25:53,430 --> 00:25:50,799
three big multiverse movies out right

682
00:25:56,950 --> 00:25:53,440
now yeah um two from marvel and the

683
00:26:01,269 --> 00:25:56,960
other i forget the name of the woman the

684
00:26:04,149 --> 00:26:01,279
asian woman uh who is in another uh

685
00:26:06,789 --> 00:26:04,159
another great movie um

686
00:26:08,710 --> 00:26:06,799
so yes if there are

687
00:26:11,269 --> 00:26:08,720
levels of existence

688
00:26:13,990 --> 00:26:11,279
that are next to us

689
00:26:14,950 --> 00:26:14,000
but not accessible to us

690
00:26:17,269 --> 00:26:14,960
but

691
00:26:19,029 --> 00:26:17,279
it's sort of like a one-way mirror

692
00:26:20,230 --> 00:26:19,039
you know we don't see them but they see

693
00:26:23,190 --> 00:26:20,240
us

694
00:26:25,350 --> 00:26:23,200
uh and they can step into our reality or

695
00:26:28,149 --> 00:26:25,360
reach into our reality

696
00:26:30,230 --> 00:26:28,159
um you know if if you could reach into a

697
00:26:33,110 --> 00:26:30,240
nearby reality just by

698
00:26:34,950 --> 00:26:33,120
force of you know force of will

699
00:26:37,029 --> 00:26:34,960
uh and

700
00:26:40,149 --> 00:26:37,039
manipulate things that are there would

701
00:26:40,870 --> 00:26:40,159
you maybe i mean

702
00:27:04,950 --> 00:26:40,880
i

703
00:27:06,950 --> 00:27:04,960
really strange technology poke prod and

704
00:27:09,830 --> 00:27:06,960
then throw it back and it's got striking

705
00:27:11,750 --> 00:27:09,840
similarities to alien abductions and and

706
00:27:13,350 --> 00:27:11,760
what may happen with another intelligent

707
00:27:15,269 --> 00:27:13,360
species looking at us

708
00:27:16,630 --> 00:27:15,279
in the same way as a fish would that be

709
00:27:17,590 --> 00:27:16,640
fair

710
00:27:19,750 --> 00:27:17,600
oh yeah

711
00:27:20,950 --> 00:27:19,760
for sure i mean

712
00:27:22,630 --> 00:27:20,960
you know that's kind of the zoo

713
00:27:23,510 --> 00:27:22,640
hypothesis

714
00:27:26,149 --> 00:27:23,520
that

715
00:27:28,710 --> 00:27:26,159
we're we're basically

716
00:27:29,669 --> 00:27:28,720
somebody's not if not property

717
00:27:33,110 --> 00:27:29,679
we're

718
00:27:34,470 --> 00:27:33,120
not considered equal ethically

719
00:27:36,710 --> 00:27:34,480
to them

720
00:27:40,070 --> 00:27:36,720
whatever their ethics might be

721
00:27:41,830 --> 00:27:40,080
um but you know it also might be in from

722
00:27:42,630 --> 00:27:41,840
their point of view

723
00:27:44,070 --> 00:27:42,640
uh

724
00:27:46,149 --> 00:27:44,080
to our benefit

725
00:27:47,669 --> 00:27:46,159
to what it is that they're doing

726
00:27:49,350 --> 00:27:47,679
to us or with us

727
00:27:51,510 --> 00:27:49,360
you know maybe they're you know this

728
00:27:53,909 --> 00:27:51,520
whole idea that we were somehow

729
00:27:56,470 --> 00:27:53,919
manipulated 70 000 years ago which again

730
00:27:58,710 --> 00:27:56,480
i i i i question

731
00:28:01,269 --> 00:27:58,720
severely that conclusion

732
00:28:02,710 --> 00:28:01,279
um but if you say that that's what might

733
00:28:04,789 --> 00:28:02,720
have happened

734
00:28:07,110 --> 00:28:04,799
um then

735
00:28:08,950 --> 00:28:07,120
the manipulation

736
00:28:12,549 --> 00:28:08,960
presumably accelerated something that

737
00:28:16,230 --> 00:28:13,990
and if

738
00:28:18,310 --> 00:28:16,240
what is of interest to them was to get

739
00:28:19,430 --> 00:28:18,320
us to a higher level of intelligence

740
00:28:21,510 --> 00:28:19,440
faster

741
00:28:24,230 --> 00:28:21,520
you then have to ask what's the agenda

742
00:28:26,710 --> 00:28:24,240
are they looking for equal partners

743
00:28:30,149 --> 00:28:26,720
or are they looking for something that

744
00:28:31,909 --> 00:28:30,159
can be used

745
00:28:35,430 --> 00:28:31,919
movie you mentioned that was everything

746
00:28:37,190 --> 00:28:35,440
everywhere all at once i believe

747
00:28:38,470 --> 00:28:37,200
just in case any movie fans are thinking

748
00:28:39,830 --> 00:28:38,480
oh i've got another couple of movies i

749
00:28:41,990 --> 00:28:39,840
can watch that's that's the one i

750
00:28:44,230 --> 00:28:42,000
haven't seen it yet but i i've heard

751
00:28:45,909 --> 00:28:44,240
great things about it me neither but i

752
00:28:47,190 --> 00:28:45,919
know dan has and it was dan that threw

753
00:28:50,149 --> 00:28:47,200
up the name of it in the background

754
00:28:51,830 --> 00:28:50,159
there um you mentioned manipulation and

755
00:28:53,669 --> 00:28:51,840
and something you talked about that that

756
00:28:56,630 --> 00:28:53,679
got me thinking on the lex friedman

757
00:28:59,990 --> 00:28:56,640
podcast was about the basal ganglia that

758
00:29:02,470 --> 00:29:00,000
part of the brain and you talked about

759
00:29:04,070 --> 00:29:02,480
its potential for

760
00:29:05,510 --> 00:29:04,080
higher intuition

761
00:29:07,990 --> 00:29:05,520
and processing

762
00:29:10,789 --> 00:29:08,000
and well you disagreed that it could

763
00:29:12,870 --> 00:29:10,799
potentially be used to you know

764
00:29:15,350 --> 00:29:12,880
was it to do with abductions or

765
00:29:17,269 --> 00:29:15,360
manipulation of other alien species not

766
00:29:20,710 --> 00:29:17,279
quite that

767
00:29:23,669 --> 00:29:20,720
well yeah i mean i i i have to apologize

768
00:29:25,909 --> 00:29:23,679
if anything that i kind of overstated

769
00:29:28,149 --> 00:29:25,919
at one point i said the ufo community

770
00:29:29,430 --> 00:29:28,159
misinterpreted or went too far

771
00:29:31,590 --> 00:29:29,440
um well

772
00:29:33,830 --> 00:29:31,600
i was the one who gave them the raw

773
00:29:37,190 --> 00:29:33,840
material to go too far i mean

774
00:29:39,510 --> 00:29:37,200
uh so i can't blame anybody but myself

775
00:29:42,070 --> 00:29:39,520
uh but i mean the

776
00:29:44,630 --> 00:29:42,080
the idea was this was sort of a side

777
00:29:46,870 --> 00:29:44,640
observation to the damage that we were

778
00:29:48,710 --> 00:29:46,880
seeing in some of these patients that

779
00:29:50,549 --> 00:29:48,720
kit green had

780
00:29:51,590 --> 00:29:50,559
most of whom we now know

781
00:29:53,430 --> 00:29:51,600
are

782
00:29:55,190 --> 00:29:53,440
essentially havana syndrome but there's

783
00:29:57,830 --> 00:29:55,200
a subset that we're not

784
00:29:59,750 --> 00:29:57,840
uh and cannot be explained by any kind

785
00:30:01,590 --> 00:29:59,760
of havana syndrome and there was clearly

786
00:30:02,950 --> 00:30:01,600
some kind of interaction with something

787
00:30:03,750 --> 00:30:02,960
unusual

788
00:30:04,470 --> 00:30:03,760
um

789
00:30:06,630 --> 00:30:04,480
but

790
00:30:09,029 --> 00:30:06,640
it was that the side observation was

791
00:30:12,630 --> 00:30:09,039
that there was this uh compaction of

792
00:30:14,870 --> 00:30:12,640
neural density between these two nuclei

793
00:30:16,470 --> 00:30:14,880
of the brain the head of the caudate and

794
00:30:19,269 --> 00:30:16,480
the putamen which is part of the basal

795
00:30:20,470 --> 00:30:19,279
ganglia it was it's that central core

796
00:30:21,510 --> 00:30:20,480
um

797
00:30:23,350 --> 00:30:21,520
that were

798
00:30:24,870 --> 00:30:23,360
we found in what we called high

799
00:30:27,190 --> 00:30:24,880
functioning individuals

800
00:30:29,430 --> 00:30:27,200
smart people right and you just you can

801
00:30:31,510 --> 00:30:29,440
define smart in many different ways it

802
00:30:33,830 --> 00:30:31,520
is not just you're good at math or

803
00:30:36,710 --> 00:30:33,840
you're good at science you can be good

804
00:30:39,269 --> 00:30:36,720
at a lot of things and be still smart

805
00:30:42,950 --> 00:30:39,279
um but it's about integration of

806
00:30:44,789 --> 00:30:42,960
information right so inter intuition is

807
00:30:47,110 --> 00:30:44,799
at the heart of things

808
00:30:51,590 --> 00:30:47,120
an unconscious

809
00:30:54,230 --> 00:30:51,600
uh conclusion that you make that was not

810
00:30:56,870 --> 00:30:54,240
i drew it out one plus one equals two

811
00:30:59,590 --> 00:30:56,880
two times five equals ten you know i

812
00:31:01,269 --> 00:30:59,600
drew out some proof of what it is this

813
00:31:05,029 --> 00:31:01,279
is this leap

814
00:31:07,830 --> 00:31:05,039
that occurs uh that still puzzles

815
00:31:09,750 --> 00:31:07,840
neurological scientists about how these

816
00:31:11,590 --> 00:31:09,760
leaps are made

817
00:31:13,430 --> 00:31:11,600
where is the information if you want to

818
00:31:15,430 --> 00:31:13,440
be purely materialistic where is the

819
00:31:19,350 --> 00:31:15,440
information process that allows for that

820
00:31:21,190 --> 00:31:19,360
to occur like a an autistic savant who

821
00:31:23,110 --> 00:31:21,200
you can ask them what the square root of

822
00:31:24,710 --> 00:31:23,120
some giant prime number is times

823
00:31:26,310 --> 00:31:24,720
whatever and they can instantly spit out

824
00:31:28,149 --> 00:31:26,320
the answer

825
00:31:29,350 --> 00:31:28,159
where did that come from how did they

826
00:31:32,549 --> 00:31:29,360
compute that

827
00:31:34,789 --> 00:31:32,559
um materialists would like to say

828
00:31:36,789 --> 00:31:34,799
it was somehow computed in the brain

829
00:31:38,950 --> 00:31:36,799
uh others would say that they reached

830
00:31:41,350 --> 00:31:38,960
into the akashic record and pulled the

831
00:31:43,990 --> 00:31:41,360
information from the akashic record

832
00:31:46,070 --> 00:31:44,000
right some sort of or that they foretold

833
00:31:47,750 --> 00:31:46,080
the answer through some sort of time

834
00:31:48,630 --> 00:31:47,760
space leap

835
00:31:50,549 --> 00:31:48,640
um

836
00:31:53,590 --> 00:31:50,559
you know i'm i'm

837
00:31:55,590 --> 00:31:53,600
open to both of those things but what it

838
00:31:57,669 --> 00:31:55,600
is a hundred percent clear

839
00:32:00,230 --> 00:31:57,679
and we've now done a study with a group

840
00:32:02,789 --> 00:32:00,240
at harvard who are neuroscientists it's

841
00:32:04,549 --> 00:32:02,799
a hundred percent clear that kits and my

842
00:32:08,149 --> 00:32:04,559
original observation about this being

843
00:32:10,149 --> 00:32:08,159
involved in intuition is 100 correct

844
00:32:12,870 --> 00:32:10,159
right so we intuited

845
00:32:14,470 --> 00:32:12,880
that this was the area of intuition

846
00:32:16,149 --> 00:32:14,480
at pretty much the same time as we were

847
00:32:17,590 --> 00:32:16,159
doing it papers were already coming out

848
00:32:19,669 --> 00:32:17,600
in the mainstream literature and we that

849
00:32:22,310 --> 00:32:19,679
we were unaware of

850
00:32:25,990 --> 00:32:22,320
but you know ideas are often in the air

851
00:32:30,230 --> 00:32:26,000
uh that the caudate especially

852
00:32:31,509 --> 00:32:30,240
uh is a center of let's call it logic

853
00:32:33,350 --> 00:32:31,519
processing

854
00:32:34,950 --> 00:32:33,360
um and so what

855
00:32:37,990 --> 00:32:34,960
i have been saying

856
00:32:42,470 --> 00:32:38,000
is that if information

857
00:32:43,990 --> 00:32:42,480
can come through some anomalous channel

858
00:32:45,590 --> 00:32:44,000
right and by that i'm not trying to hide

859
00:32:47,990 --> 00:32:45,600
anything i'm really talking about some

860
00:32:49,190 --> 00:32:48,000
sort of psychic power

861
00:32:53,269 --> 00:32:49,200
um

862
00:32:56,710 --> 00:32:53,279
some sort of psychic ability uh it will

863
00:32:58,070 --> 00:32:56,720
perforce be processed through this

864
00:33:01,509 --> 00:32:58,080
region

865
00:33:03,990 --> 00:33:01,519
and if information is to be laid onto

866
00:33:06,950 --> 00:33:04,000
human consciousness

867
00:33:10,870 --> 00:33:06,960
in our brain it's going to come through

868
00:33:12,230 --> 00:33:10,880
one of the at least five known

869
00:33:13,750 --> 00:33:12,240
mainstream

870
00:33:14,950 --> 00:33:13,760
senses

871
00:33:16,630 --> 00:33:14,960
and so

872
00:33:19,110 --> 00:33:16,640
different people with different

873
00:33:20,710 --> 00:33:19,120
capabilities let's say emotional

874
00:33:22,789 --> 00:33:20,720
intelligence or

875
00:33:25,029 --> 00:33:22,799
uh visual or

876
00:33:26,470 --> 00:33:25,039
sensory or whatever

877
00:33:28,310 --> 00:33:26,480
the information can be layered in

878
00:33:30,630 --> 00:33:28,320
different ways and then will be

879
00:33:33,110 --> 00:33:30,640
interpreted through those channels

880
00:33:35,909 --> 00:33:33,120
but it's it's being layered into that so

881
00:33:37,350 --> 00:33:35,919
i use the example of of that guy tyler

882
00:33:39,110 --> 00:33:37,360
henry

883
00:33:42,549 --> 00:33:39,120
there's a television show that he's he

884
00:33:45,110 --> 00:33:42,559
has he's a medium i mean

885
00:33:47,509 --> 00:33:45,120
i listen to him and watch him

886
00:33:49,269 --> 00:33:47,519
uh as he's

887
00:33:50,470 --> 00:33:49,279
giving these readings

888
00:33:52,070 --> 00:33:50,480
and i'm wondering

889
00:33:53,990 --> 00:33:52,080
and he says i see this and there and

890
00:33:55,990 --> 00:33:54,000
there's telling me that and and i'm

891
00:33:58,389 --> 00:33:56,000
wondering how

892
00:34:00,149 --> 00:33:58,399
what's going on inside of his head

893
00:34:01,590 --> 00:34:00,159
that's allowing him to come to these

894
00:34:04,470 --> 00:34:01,600
conclusions

895
00:34:06,549 --> 00:34:04,480
and where's the information coming from

896
00:34:09,270 --> 00:34:06,559
and how is it being how is that

897
00:34:11,190 --> 00:34:09,280
information being interpreted

898
00:34:12,389 --> 00:34:11,200
in the brain i mean i'd love to sit down

899
00:34:14,230 --> 00:34:12,399
and have a conversation with him he and

900
00:34:17,270 --> 00:34:14,240
i have had a couple of quick back

901
00:34:19,430 --> 00:34:17,280
channel discussions um on twitter but

902
00:34:20,550 --> 00:34:19,440
he's a he's i mean if i'm busy he seems

903
00:34:21,829 --> 00:34:20,560
a thousand times busier because

904
00:34:22,950 --> 00:34:21,839
everybody and their brother wants a

905
00:34:25,589 --> 00:34:22,960
reading

906
00:34:27,510 --> 00:34:25,599
um you know so uh

907
00:34:30,069 --> 00:34:27,520
but

908
00:34:31,909 --> 00:34:30,079
that's the question i want to get from

909
00:34:33,430 --> 00:34:31,919
some of these mediums is what is it that

910
00:34:36,470 --> 00:34:33,440
they see

911
00:34:39,430 --> 00:34:36,480
and and what is the feeling of the sense

912
00:34:41,270 --> 00:34:39,440
i mean when i get an intuitive flash

913
00:34:43,669 --> 00:34:41,280
about something and i'm not a medium or

914
00:34:44,790 --> 00:34:43,679
a remote viewer or anything like that

915
00:34:48,310 --> 00:34:44,800
um

916
00:34:49,829 --> 00:34:48,320
i say that it to me it has a specific

917
00:34:52,230 --> 00:34:49,839
color or a

918
00:34:53,430 --> 00:34:52,240
flavor that's different than other ideas

919
00:34:55,669 --> 00:34:53,440
that arrive

920
00:34:57,430 --> 00:34:55,679
i mean i and i've started to train

921
00:34:58,390 --> 00:34:57,440
myself to say ah

922
00:35:46,710 --> 00:34:58,400
i

923
00:35:48,710 --> 00:35:46,720
have to to have such an advanced

924
00:35:51,190 --> 00:35:48,720
knowledge of you know us and the

925
00:35:53,430 --> 00:35:51,200
universe to to create dna and and

926
00:35:55,589 --> 00:35:53,440
manipulate it like they apparently or

927
00:35:58,310 --> 00:35:55,599
could do is there a chance that a

928
00:36:00,710 --> 00:35:58,320
species like that could wirelessly tap

929
00:36:03,270 --> 00:36:00,720
into some of these parts of the brain to

930
00:36:05,510 --> 00:36:03,280
manipulate what people see and this

931
00:36:07,910 --> 00:36:05,520
could be a reason why people can see the

932
00:36:10,710 --> 00:36:07,920
same sighting for example of a ufo or a

933
00:36:12,069 --> 00:36:10,720
uap but describe different effects

934
00:36:13,430 --> 00:36:12,079
because they're receiving it in a

935
00:36:16,390 --> 00:36:13,440
different way yeah

936
00:36:19,750 --> 00:36:16,400
exactly i mean i use the term telefactor

937
00:36:22,230 --> 00:36:19,760
in the information you know

938
00:36:23,430 --> 00:36:22,240
again mainstream science

939
00:36:24,870 --> 00:36:23,440
you can

940
00:36:28,470 --> 00:36:24,880
now put

941
00:36:31,109 --> 00:36:28,480
a receiver or even a transmitter onto

942
00:36:33,349 --> 00:36:31,119
people's heads and you can start to make

943
00:36:35,589 --> 00:36:33,359
them see or hear things

944
00:36:37,910 --> 00:36:35,599
uh that they wouldn't uh

945
00:36:41,270 --> 00:36:37,920
be able to i mean through electronic

946
00:36:42,950 --> 00:36:41,280
means right transcranial stimulation etc

947
00:36:45,109 --> 00:36:42,960
or or read

948
00:36:48,390 --> 00:36:45,119
uh what people's thoughts

949
00:36:49,829 --> 00:36:48,400
right i mean it's very crude it's not

950
00:36:51,990 --> 00:36:49,839
movie level

951
00:36:55,510 --> 00:36:52,000
you know i'm i'm i'm reading your

952
00:36:57,910 --> 00:36:55,520
innermost desires but

953
00:37:01,109 --> 00:36:57,920
i mean even with our crude technology it

954
00:37:02,870 --> 00:37:01,119
can be done so again imagine

955
00:37:05,430 --> 00:37:02,880
something a little bit more advanced or

956
00:37:07,910 --> 00:37:05,440
a lot more advanced than us i see no

957
00:37:09,990 --> 00:37:07,920
reason why it couldn't reach into our

958
00:37:12,470 --> 00:37:10,000
brains and make us think things

959
00:37:14,710 --> 00:37:12,480
and transmit information a thousand

960
00:37:16,550 --> 00:37:14,720
years from now assuming we don't

961
00:37:17,589 --> 00:37:16,560
you know walk off the edge of a cliff

962
00:37:19,030 --> 00:37:17,599
somewhere

963
00:37:20,310 --> 00:37:19,040
culturally

964
00:37:23,270 --> 00:37:20,320
i would see us being able to do

965
00:37:25,270 --> 00:37:23,280
something like that ourselves

966
00:37:27,430 --> 00:37:25,280
it reminds me a little i've spoken about

967
00:37:29,109 --> 00:37:27,440
the sighting i had as a child where me

968
00:37:30,790 --> 00:37:29,119
and and four other people including my

969
00:37:33,190 --> 00:37:30,800
mum who has no interest in the ufo

970
00:37:35,430 --> 00:37:33,200
subject so pretty much a ferris wheel

971
00:37:38,069 --> 00:37:35,440
size object on its side not far off the

972
00:37:40,550 --> 00:37:38,079
ground spinning at an incredible speed

973
00:37:42,630 --> 00:37:40,560
it certainly wasn't a ferris wheel um

974
00:37:45,349 --> 00:37:42,640
but it was in a very built up area a lot

975
00:37:47,190 --> 00:37:45,359
of cars very highly populated and i

976
00:37:49,670 --> 00:37:47,200
wonder is it something in those

977
00:37:51,750 --> 00:37:49,680
experiences where certain people can see

978
00:37:53,430 --> 00:37:51,760
it at a certain time for for a

979
00:37:55,829 --> 00:37:53,440
particular reason and that's always

980
00:37:57,910 --> 00:37:55,839
stuck with me that maybe a group of us

981
00:37:59,910 --> 00:37:57,920
at a distance about a mile away could

982
00:38:01,190 --> 00:37:59,920
see this object but maybe people closer

983
00:38:02,950 --> 00:38:01,200
to it couldn't

984
00:38:04,710 --> 00:38:02,960
and it reminds me there's a youtube

985
00:38:06,870 --> 00:38:04,720
video and it's i had to google it but

986
00:38:09,109 --> 00:38:06,880
it's the selective attention test from

987
00:38:10,470 --> 00:38:09,119
simons and chabris where you're asked to

988
00:38:12,790 --> 00:38:10,480
count how many times a group of

989
00:38:14,790 --> 00:38:12,800
individuals pass a basketball between

990
00:38:16,790 --> 00:38:14,800
each other and you're so caught up in

991
00:38:18,710 --> 00:38:16,800
counting a lot of people don't notice

992
00:38:20,310 --> 00:38:18,720
that someone in a gorilla costume walks

993
00:38:21,990 --> 00:38:20,320
through the middle of the group

994
00:38:23,750 --> 00:38:22,000
and walks out a frame and it's only

995
00:38:25,750 --> 00:38:23,760
afterwards when you're told did anyone

996
00:38:28,310 --> 00:38:25,760
see the gorilla where two people in a

997
00:38:30,310 --> 00:38:28,320
group of ten say yes yet the gorilla was

998
00:38:31,990 --> 00:38:30,320
there just only

999
00:38:33,670 --> 00:38:32,000
so such a small percentage of the group

1000
00:38:36,310 --> 00:38:33,680
pay attention to see it

1001
00:38:39,030 --> 00:38:36,320
yeah i failed that test uh i remember

1002
00:38:40,870 --> 00:38:39,040
back and i i actually couldn't believe

1003
00:38:41,750 --> 00:38:40,880
i thought i was being tricked

1004
00:38:42,470 --> 00:38:41,760
um

1005
00:38:44,150 --> 00:38:42,480
so

1006
00:38:45,670 --> 00:38:44,160
uh

1007
00:38:47,750 --> 00:38:45,680
i think that that's

1008
00:38:49,750 --> 00:38:47,760
even without

1009
00:38:52,310 --> 00:38:49,760
any kind of paranormal

1010
00:38:57,829 --> 00:38:54,950
lots of people will look at something

1011
00:38:59,510 --> 00:38:57,839
and just it doesn't fit into their

1012
00:39:01,270 --> 00:38:59,520
context of what they're thinking about

1013
00:39:03,349 --> 00:39:01,280
today for instance and so they have

1014
00:39:05,349 --> 00:39:03,359
their mind on something else let's say

1015
00:39:07,589 --> 00:39:05,359
and so they see it and it just doesn't

1016
00:39:10,310 --> 00:39:07,599
matter and they they move on and then

1017
00:39:12,630 --> 00:39:10,320
there are you know i used the example

1018
00:39:14,550 --> 00:39:12,640
and this has been talked about a lot

1019
00:39:17,430 --> 00:39:14,560
of when the first of the

1020
00:39:20,870 --> 00:39:17,440
uh of you know the explorers

1021
00:39:21,750 --> 00:39:20,880
uh or conquerors showed up uh in the new

1022
00:39:25,030 --> 00:39:21,760
world

1023
00:39:27,190 --> 00:39:25,040
and a lot of the indians uh and the

1024
00:39:28,710 --> 00:39:27,200
mayans or the incas or whoever at the

1025
00:39:30,950 --> 00:39:28,720
time

1026
00:39:32,790 --> 00:39:30,960
didn't recognize the ships for what they

1027
00:39:35,510 --> 00:39:32,800
were

1028
00:39:37,510 --> 00:39:35,520
they saw these objects and then they but

1029
00:39:39,510 --> 00:39:37,520
they didn't realize that their world was

1030
00:39:41,510 --> 00:39:39,520
about to change and they just went about

1031
00:39:43,510 --> 00:39:41,520
their their until somebody came off

1032
00:39:45,990 --> 00:39:43,520
those ships and and

1033
00:39:48,950 --> 00:39:46,000
walked up and said by the way we we

1034
00:39:49,829 --> 00:39:48,960
claim you for the queen

1035
00:39:51,589 --> 00:39:49,839
right

1036
00:39:53,589 --> 00:39:51,599
so um

1037
00:39:55,910 --> 00:39:53,599
i i think that there's a quite a bit of

1038
00:39:58,710 --> 00:39:55,920
that going on now if you're talking

1039
00:39:59,990 --> 00:39:58,720
about tele-factored information

1040
00:40:01,190 --> 00:40:00,000
you could either it could either be

1041
00:40:03,190 --> 00:40:01,200
directed

1042
00:40:06,309 --> 00:40:03,200
or it could be broadcast

1043
00:40:07,589 --> 00:40:06,319
and if you don't have the right receiver

1044
00:40:10,230 --> 00:40:07,599
then you're just not going to see it and

1045
00:40:11,270 --> 00:40:10,240
if you're not at the right level of you

1046
00:40:12,710 --> 00:40:11,280
know the

1047
00:40:15,430 --> 00:40:12,720
this is something different that i

1048
00:40:19,030 --> 00:40:15,440
should pay attention to

1049
00:40:21,349 --> 00:40:19,040
uh then you'll just go about your day

1050
00:40:24,470 --> 00:40:21,359
right and so in a in a way it's a in a

1051
00:40:25,670 --> 00:40:24,480
way it's a test or it's a screen or it's

1052
00:40:27,270 --> 00:40:25,680
a filter

1053
00:40:29,670 --> 00:40:27,280
for those who can see it for what it is

1054
00:40:31,990 --> 00:40:29,680
and realize what it is and

1055
00:40:33,829 --> 00:40:32,000
jumping back to jacques control

1056
00:40:36,829 --> 00:40:33,839
hypothesis

1057
00:40:39,589 --> 00:40:36,839
it will control those who are capable of

1058
00:40:40,790 --> 00:40:39,599
seeing now whether i'm not saying seeing

1059
00:40:42,470 --> 00:40:40,800
is a good thing

1060
00:40:44,230 --> 00:40:42,480
right it doesn't mean that you're better

1061
00:40:46,790 --> 00:40:44,240
it just means

1062
00:40:48,470 --> 00:40:46,800
you're seeing it

1063
00:40:50,150 --> 00:40:48,480
of course one of those

1064
00:40:52,309 --> 00:40:50,160
one of those famous events that you've

1065
00:40:54,390 --> 00:40:52,319
talked about is the aerial school event

1066
00:40:56,950 --> 00:40:54,400
which happened in the mid-90s in

1067
00:40:58,550 --> 00:40:56,960
zimbabwe and as we record this we're

1068
00:41:00,630 --> 00:40:58,560
about a week away from the release of

1069
00:41:02,390 --> 00:41:00,640
the aerial skill phenomenon documentary

1070
00:41:04,870 --> 00:41:02,400
which i've been fortunate to see a copy

1071
00:41:07,109 --> 00:41:04,880
of and it's very very good very thorough

1072
00:41:09,670 --> 00:41:07,119
and it follows the the story of those

1073
00:41:12,150 --> 00:41:09,680
children into their adulthood as well

1074
00:41:15,270 --> 00:41:12,160
and many of those children grew up to

1075
00:41:17,270 --> 00:41:15,280
have very um be very altruistic after

1076
00:41:19,670 --> 00:41:17,280
those experiences and they go into

1077
00:41:21,750 --> 00:41:19,680
careers that reflect this as has that

1078
00:41:24,550 --> 00:41:21,760
held true in your experience and with

1079
00:41:25,990 --> 00:41:24,560
the people you've spoken to as well

1080
00:41:29,030 --> 00:41:26,000
well i

1081
00:41:31,109 --> 00:41:29,040
was fascinated when i first saw that uh

1082
00:41:32,550 --> 00:41:31,119
video the some of the earlier ones that

1083
00:41:36,069 --> 00:41:32,560
were on youtube

1084
00:41:37,510 --> 00:41:36,079
you know back as far as 2010 2011 and it

1085
00:41:40,309 --> 00:41:37,520
always struck me

1086
00:41:41,349 --> 00:41:40,319
as probably the most impressive

1087
00:41:42,790 --> 00:41:41,359
uh

1088
00:41:44,950 --> 00:41:42,800
proof

1089
00:41:48,150 --> 00:41:44,960
that something was happening right that

1090
00:41:49,589 --> 00:41:48,160
you couldn't have that many children

1091
00:41:51,750 --> 00:41:49,599
seeing and talking about the same thing

1092
00:41:53,829 --> 00:41:51,760
and some people go oh rubbish gary of

1093
00:41:55,589 --> 00:41:53,839
course they can i said no rubbish you

1094
00:41:57,270 --> 00:41:55,599
shut up you're wrong

1095
00:41:59,030 --> 00:41:57,280
right stop

1096
00:42:01,109 --> 00:41:59,040
gaslighting me

1097
00:42:02,550 --> 00:42:01,119
it's you can't get that many people

1098
00:42:05,670 --> 00:42:02,560
saying the same thing especially

1099
00:42:09,109 --> 00:42:05,680
children and then still holdings now to

1100
00:42:10,069 --> 00:42:09,119
that story you know 20 30 years later

1101
00:42:12,390 --> 00:42:10,079
so

1102
00:42:13,670 --> 00:42:12,400
um they mostly seem to have seen the

1103
00:42:15,430 --> 00:42:13,680
same thing

1104
00:42:17,589 --> 00:42:15,440
right and the the difference differences

1105
00:42:20,230 --> 00:42:17,599
only seem to be down to the level of the

1106
00:42:21,750 --> 00:42:20,240
artistic ability of the individual

1107
00:42:23,430 --> 00:42:21,760
student to draw what it is that they

1108
00:42:25,510 --> 00:42:23,440
thought that they saw

1109
00:42:27,430 --> 00:42:25,520
but like um

1110
00:42:29,349 --> 00:42:27,440
i think a lot of if you follow any of

1111
00:42:30,470 --> 00:42:29,359
the remote viewing literature

1112
00:42:36,069 --> 00:42:30,480
the

1113
00:42:37,910 --> 00:42:36,079
capability is to

1114
00:42:39,910 --> 00:42:37,920
read the signal

1115
00:42:41,430 --> 00:42:39,920
not the interpretation

1116
00:42:44,550 --> 00:42:41,440
right that once you start getting into

1117
00:42:46,470 --> 00:42:44,560
interpretation that's where your

1118
00:42:48,550 --> 00:42:46,480
cultural background

1119
00:42:50,390 --> 00:42:48,560
and what's going on inside your head

1120
00:42:53,430 --> 00:42:50,400
starts to adjust

1121
00:42:54,630 --> 00:42:53,440
what it is you think you saw

1122
00:42:57,750 --> 00:42:54,640
and so there might be a little bit of

1123
00:43:00,069 --> 00:42:57,760
that going on with these children but

1124
00:43:03,430 --> 00:43:00,079
irrespective of that

1125
00:43:04,710 --> 00:43:03,440
the the central story of what they saw

1126
00:43:05,990 --> 00:43:04,720
appears to be

1127
00:43:07,750 --> 00:43:06,000
well at the very least a shared

1128
00:43:09,910 --> 00:43:07,760
experience

1129
00:43:13,349 --> 00:43:09,920
um you know there's no

1130
00:43:14,470 --> 00:43:13,359
but the there's no material evidence

1131
00:43:16,069 --> 00:43:14,480
but

1132
00:43:22,309 --> 00:43:16,079
the s

1133
00:43:23,910 --> 00:43:22,319
is as you mentioned 100 clear

1134
00:43:25,030 --> 00:43:23,920
these kids were affected for their whole

1135
00:43:27,990 --> 00:43:25,040
lives

1136
00:43:29,829 --> 00:43:28,000
um it apparently changed them

1137
00:43:31,349 --> 00:43:29,839
at least as far as they're concerned for

1138
00:43:34,150 --> 00:43:31,359
the better

1139
00:43:35,670 --> 00:43:34,160
i i don't know if any of the i haven't

1140
00:43:37,270 --> 00:43:35,680
seen the movie so i'm jealous that

1141
00:43:39,109 --> 00:43:37,280
you've seen it already

1142
00:43:42,309 --> 00:43:39,119
um

1143
00:43:44,550 --> 00:43:42,319
you know i haven't heard of any negative

1144
00:43:45,270 --> 00:43:44,560
consequences other than let's say that

1145
00:43:53,109 --> 00:43:45,280
the

1146
00:43:56,150 --> 00:43:53,119
um

1147
00:43:59,190 --> 00:43:56,160
negatives

1148
00:44:00,150 --> 00:43:59,200
uh so i'm trying to understand

1149
00:44:01,030 --> 00:44:00,160
uh

1150
00:44:10,630 --> 00:44:01,040
the

1151
00:44:12,950 --> 00:44:10,640
said listen don't listen to anything

1152
00:44:14,870 --> 00:44:12,960
else just go watch that movie and tell

1153
00:44:17,030 --> 00:44:14,880
me what you think

1154
00:44:19,829 --> 00:44:17,040
and you know a lot of people came back

1155
00:44:21,990 --> 00:44:19,839
saying wow you know this is seriously

1156
00:44:24,150 --> 00:44:22,000
interesting

1157
00:44:26,870 --> 00:44:24,160
there's an innocence to those children

1158
00:44:28,309 --> 00:44:26,880
and their stories and when john mack got

1159
00:44:29,910 --> 00:44:28,319
involved and this is something that's

1160
00:44:31,990 --> 00:44:29,920
that comes out in a documentary no

1161
00:44:33,829 --> 00:44:32,000
spoilers but he really moves on the

1162
00:44:35,190 --> 00:44:33,839
story and gets the emotion and the

1163
00:44:37,430 --> 00:44:35,200
feeling from the children which is

1164
00:44:40,390 --> 00:44:37,440
fascinating to see come across on the

1165
00:44:42,150 --> 00:44:40,400
camera as well and something that that

1166
00:44:43,589 --> 00:44:42,160
doesn't happen to those children but has

1167
00:44:46,069 --> 00:44:43,599
happened to others and has been well

1168
00:44:48,309 --> 00:44:46,079
documented as the the potential of a

1169
00:44:50,630 --> 00:44:48,319
hitchhiker effect we've heard this from

1170
00:44:53,510 --> 00:44:50,640
places such as skinwalker ranch that

1171
00:44:55,430 --> 00:44:53,520
there's a potential for a strangeness to

1172
00:44:57,510 --> 00:44:55,440
follow individuals

1173
00:44:58,870 --> 00:44:57,520
from the the place that occurs

1174
00:45:01,109 --> 00:44:58,880
and moves on

1175
00:45:03,670 --> 00:45:01,119
and i wonder do you consider

1176
00:45:05,670 --> 00:45:03,680
this to almost be a virus type of effect

1177
00:45:07,109 --> 00:45:05,680
from the work you've seen or anything

1178
00:45:09,750 --> 00:45:07,119
that's been done on it

1179
00:45:12,870 --> 00:45:09,760
we'll see hitchhiker implies something

1180
00:45:15,270 --> 00:45:12,880
has attached to you

1181
00:45:17,589 --> 00:45:15,280
but maybe a different way of talking

1182
00:45:19,829 --> 00:45:17,599
about it is

1183
00:45:22,069 --> 00:45:19,839
that you're now open

1184
00:45:23,510 --> 00:45:22,079
to observing things that you couldn't

1185
00:45:25,589 --> 00:45:23,520
see before

1186
00:45:27,589 --> 00:45:25,599
but that there's a

1187
00:45:30,470 --> 00:45:27,599
dialectic right there's a discussion

1188
00:45:33,030 --> 00:45:30,480
that you seeing

1189
00:45:33,829 --> 00:45:33,040
leads to a feedback

1190
00:45:36,950 --> 00:45:33,839
that

1191
00:45:38,470 --> 00:45:36,960
it knows it's been seen and so you

1192
00:45:41,349 --> 00:45:38,480
see it more

1193
00:45:42,309 --> 00:45:41,359
right i used the term lighthouses in the

1194
00:45:43,190 --> 00:45:42,319
dark

1195
00:45:46,950 --> 00:45:43,200
uh

1196
00:45:50,470 --> 00:45:46,960
phenomenon that some people seem to be

1197
00:45:52,790 --> 00:45:50,480
lighthouses in the dark almost as if

1198
00:45:54,630 --> 00:45:52,800
the ability to see

1199
00:45:57,430 --> 00:45:54,640
is

1200
00:45:59,510 --> 00:45:57,440
observable from elsewhere

1201
00:46:03,430 --> 00:45:59,520
and so it gets attracted to you but once

1202
00:46:06,069 --> 00:46:03,440
you've opened you've lit the lighthouse

1203
00:46:07,510 --> 00:46:06,079
and so hitchhiker implies a negative

1204
00:46:09,750 --> 00:46:07,520
kind of thing something sitting on your

1205
00:46:11,030 --> 00:46:09,760
shoulder as opposed to

1206
00:46:12,950 --> 00:46:11,040
you're open

1207
00:46:15,589 --> 00:46:12,960
to seeing it and so therefore it's

1208
00:46:17,270 --> 00:46:15,599
willing you know it wants to talk so it

1209
00:46:20,230 --> 00:46:17,280
it hangs around

1210
00:46:21,750 --> 00:46:20,240
you know but many of the

1211
00:46:24,150 --> 00:46:21,760
i mean you have both positive and

1212
00:46:26,630 --> 00:46:24,160
negative stories of hitchhikers i have a

1213
00:46:29,109 --> 00:46:26,640
a good friend in the military and it was

1214
00:46:32,790 --> 00:46:29,119
i i would say largely a negative uh

1215
00:46:33,990 --> 00:46:32,800
hitchhiker effect to him and his family

1216
00:46:36,309 --> 00:46:34,000
um

1217
00:46:38,150 --> 00:46:36,319
i i know of a couple of positive

1218
00:46:40,309 --> 00:46:38,160
hitchhiker effects

1219
00:46:42,710 --> 00:46:40,319
as well

1220
00:46:45,190 --> 00:46:42,720
as their potential those those positives

1221
00:46:47,510 --> 00:46:45,200
and negatives are how those individuals

1222
00:46:49,750 --> 00:46:47,520
construe what's happening and

1223
00:46:52,069 --> 00:46:49,760
potentially whatever is causing these

1224
00:46:53,910 --> 00:46:52,079
effects isn't necessarily looking at

1225
00:46:56,230 --> 00:46:53,920
those those consequences of their

1226
00:46:58,470 --> 00:46:56,240
actions as being positive or negative

1227
00:47:00,309 --> 00:46:58,480
and just a way to communicate

1228
00:47:02,470 --> 00:47:00,319
yeah you know i mean

1229
00:47:03,670 --> 00:47:02,480
if you've listened to any of colm

1230
00:47:06,309 --> 00:47:03,680
kelleher's

1231
00:47:09,190 --> 00:47:06,319
uh interviews um

1232
00:47:12,309 --> 00:47:09,200
he has i always accuse him of being a

1233
00:47:16,390 --> 00:47:12,319
it's a particularly dark irish view

1234
00:47:18,710 --> 00:47:16,400
of of things um but i i can't disagree

1235
00:47:21,030 --> 00:47:18,720
with him that it it it gives you back

1236
00:47:22,470 --> 00:47:21,040
what you put into it it's a feedback

1237
00:47:23,430 --> 00:47:22,480
system

1238
00:47:25,349 --> 00:47:23,440
um

1239
00:47:27,349 --> 00:47:25,359
you know there's this notion of uh

1240
00:47:28,390 --> 00:47:27,359
synchronicities and intent

1241
00:47:30,710 --> 00:47:28,400
and

1242
00:47:32,790 --> 00:47:30,720
synchronicities happen

1243
00:47:35,430 --> 00:47:32,800
almost when you want them to

1244
00:47:36,950 --> 00:47:35,440
it's almost as if now you're talking

1245
00:47:39,349 --> 00:47:36,960
to

1246
00:47:41,430 --> 00:47:39,359
the phenomenon and it's giving you back

1247
00:47:43,829 --> 00:47:41,440
what you want

1248
00:47:44,950 --> 00:47:43,839
right you basically create the world in

1249
00:47:48,950 --> 00:47:44,960
front of you

1250
00:47:50,950 --> 00:47:48,960
by intending it um you know i

1251
00:47:52,950 --> 00:47:50,960
i've not seen any proof of that but it's

1252
00:47:54,630 --> 00:47:52,960
a fascinating concept

1253
00:47:57,990 --> 00:47:54,640
i mean i have plenty of synchronicities

1254
00:48:00,309 --> 00:47:58,000
that are bizarre that happen in my life

1255
00:48:01,589 --> 00:48:00,319
but um

1256
00:48:03,990 --> 00:48:01,599
whether that's

1257
00:48:07,030 --> 00:48:04,000
some outside agency purposefully

1258
00:48:09,109 --> 00:48:07,040
listening to my desires and creating

1259
00:48:10,710 --> 00:48:09,119
that for me or whether there's something

1260
00:48:12,309 --> 00:48:10,720
more fundamental to the structure of the

1261
00:48:13,510 --> 00:48:12,319
universe that allows for these kinds of

1262
00:48:14,790 --> 00:48:13,520
things to occur

1263
00:48:16,309 --> 00:48:14,800
is an open

1264
00:48:18,069 --> 00:48:16,319
question

1265
00:48:19,990 --> 00:48:18,079
those synchronicities can certainly

1266
00:48:21,349 --> 00:48:20,000
range for different people and they can

1267
00:48:23,190 --> 00:48:21,359
be very strange when they happen but i

1268
00:48:24,710 --> 00:48:23,200
do wonder is it because i'm thinking

1269
00:48:27,829 --> 00:48:24,720
about a certain abba song and it comes

1270
00:48:29,430 --> 00:48:27,839
on the radio seconds after that some

1271
00:48:31,589 --> 00:48:29,440
non-human intelligence has allowed that

1272
00:48:33,510 --> 00:48:31,599
to happen or is it just you know pure

1273
00:48:34,950 --> 00:48:33,520
coincidence but something that people

1274
00:48:36,790 --> 00:48:34,960
have got in touch with me recently about

1275
00:48:38,950 --> 00:48:36,800
is different synchronicities and it's

1276
00:48:41,030 --> 00:48:38,960
always fascinating to hear about

1277
00:48:43,109 --> 00:48:41,040
moving on and skipping a whole lot of

1278
00:48:44,630 --> 00:48:43,119
stuff gary just due to time constraints

1279
00:48:46,950 --> 00:48:44,640
um you've recently published a

1280
00:48:49,109 --> 00:48:46,960
peer-reviewed paper on studying

1281
00:48:50,470 --> 00:48:49,119
materials found at crash sites can you

1282
00:48:52,150 --> 00:48:50,480
tell us a little bit about what you

1283
00:48:55,030 --> 00:48:52,160
found

1284
00:48:57,829 --> 00:48:55,040
sure um well the objective of the paper

1285
00:49:01,109 --> 00:48:57,839
up front was to work on

1286
00:49:04,270 --> 00:49:01,119
uh a sample at least one sample

1287
00:49:07,829 --> 00:49:04,280
that was in in many ways

1288
00:49:10,230 --> 00:49:07,839
non-controversial in so far as the the

1289
00:49:12,630 --> 00:49:10,240
number of witnesses that had seen it

1290
00:49:13,750 --> 00:49:12,640
right so you had multiple witnesses

1291
00:49:15,990 --> 00:49:13,760
uh

1292
00:49:17,190 --> 00:49:16,000
on site immediately you had a chain of

1293
00:49:19,829 --> 00:49:17,200
custody

1294
00:49:22,470 --> 00:49:19,839
that you could list that

1295
00:49:26,549 --> 00:49:22,480
basically made sure that the

1296
00:49:28,870 --> 00:49:26,559
object was not hoaxed in some way

1297
00:49:31,510 --> 00:49:28,880
and

1298
00:49:33,829 --> 00:49:31,520
this one was the council bluffs

1299
00:49:35,670 --> 00:49:33,839
episode and this is one that jacques

1300
00:49:36,870 --> 00:49:35,680
valet had been involved with for a long

1301
00:49:40,069 --> 00:49:36,880
time

1302
00:49:42,390 --> 00:49:40,079
uh and an object was seen above the city

1303
00:49:45,270 --> 00:49:42,400
of council bluffs iowa

1304
00:49:47,430 --> 00:49:45,280
uh it was a one of these typical kind of

1305
00:49:50,230 --> 00:49:47,440
things with the light flashing around

1306
00:49:51,109 --> 00:49:50,240
and then it just some objects dropped

1307
00:49:53,270 --> 00:49:51,119
from it

1308
00:49:56,390 --> 00:49:53,280
glowing object at night

1309
00:50:00,309 --> 00:49:56,400
um and the witnesses showed up 30-ish

1310
00:50:01,750 --> 00:50:00,319
pounds of molten metal on the dirt

1311
00:50:05,109 --> 00:50:01,760
next to a levee

1312
00:50:07,270 --> 00:50:05,119
near water uh zero chance that it you

1313
00:50:08,470 --> 00:50:07,280
know hat was

1314
00:50:10,790 --> 00:50:08,480
hoaxed or

1315
00:50:13,750 --> 00:50:10,800
dropped there by some industrial process

1316
00:50:16,069 --> 00:50:13,760
of humans all of this stuff had been

1317
00:50:17,430 --> 00:50:16,079
pre-vetted long before i came to the

1318
00:50:18,470 --> 00:50:17,440
scene

1319
00:50:20,150 --> 00:50:18,480
um

1320
00:50:22,230 --> 00:50:20,160
and i

1321
00:50:24,390 --> 00:50:22,240
just brought the tools that are

1322
00:50:28,309 --> 00:50:24,400
available in my laboratory

1323
00:50:31,349 --> 00:50:28,319
uh for materials analysis metal analysis

1324
00:50:33,670 --> 00:50:31,359
uh to the to the table uh and we did a

1325
00:50:35,430 --> 00:50:33,680
very simple metallurgical analysis i

1326
00:50:37,270 --> 00:50:35,440
mean a lot more that could be done with

1327
00:50:40,150 --> 00:50:37,280
it especially these days

1328
00:50:43,750 --> 00:50:40,160
um we didn't find anything remarkable in

1329
00:50:46,790 --> 00:50:43,760
it in terms of the isotopes but

1330
00:50:49,430 --> 00:50:46,800
what was if anything remarkable

1331
00:50:52,230 --> 00:50:49,440
was that depending on where you looked

1332
00:50:55,430 --> 00:50:52,240
in the sample that i had

1333
00:50:57,670 --> 00:50:55,440
the metals that were there

1334
00:51:00,870 --> 00:50:57,680
were of different ratios

1335
00:51:04,150 --> 00:51:00,880
so it was incompletely mixed

1336
00:51:07,270 --> 00:51:04,160
so whatever it came from

1337
00:51:09,750 --> 00:51:07,280
had multiple inputs of different metals

1338
00:51:11,030 --> 00:51:09,760
like you know magnesium and iron and

1339
00:51:13,270 --> 00:51:11,040
titanium

1340
00:51:14,309 --> 00:51:13,280
but it hadn't been you know mixed in a

1341
00:51:16,630 --> 00:51:14,319
blender

1342
00:51:17,990 --> 00:51:16,640
already it was only partially mixed and

1343
00:51:20,069 --> 00:51:18,000
then

1344
00:51:22,470 --> 00:51:20,079
dropped so

1345
00:51:24,230 --> 00:51:22,480
that's interesting because you can go to

1346
00:51:27,190 --> 00:51:24,240
most smelting

1347
00:51:29,589 --> 00:51:27,200
uh companies that are making ironer

1348
00:51:30,710 --> 00:51:29,599
things and you know

1349
00:51:32,309 --> 00:51:30,720
either

1350
00:51:34,069 --> 00:51:32,319
what you found on one piece of an iron

1351
00:51:36,470 --> 00:51:34,079
versus another is going to be is going

1352
00:51:38,150 --> 00:51:36,480
to be the same because if it's not it's

1353
00:51:39,990 --> 00:51:38,160
going to have different

1354
00:51:42,069 --> 00:51:40,000
tension and torsional

1355
00:51:43,829 --> 00:51:42,079
properties when you mold it into

1356
00:51:45,750 --> 00:51:43,839
whatever it is you're molding right and

1357
00:51:46,549 --> 00:51:45,760
so it will have fracture

1358
00:51:48,470 --> 00:51:46,559
uh

1359
00:51:49,510 --> 00:51:48,480
you know in one place more likely than

1360
00:51:50,710 --> 00:51:49,520
another

1361
00:51:52,069 --> 00:51:50,720
so

1362
00:51:54,630 --> 00:51:52,079
that was interesting

1363
00:51:57,430 --> 00:51:54,640
um but then also the the combination of

1364
00:51:59,750 --> 00:51:57,440
metals that were in it were

1365
00:52:02,230 --> 00:51:59,760
again not something which is used in any

1366
00:52:04,470 --> 00:52:02,240
normal industrial process

1367
00:52:05,750 --> 00:52:04,480
doesn't i mean it all it means is we

1368
00:52:07,829 --> 00:52:05,760
don't know

1369
00:52:09,829 --> 00:52:07,839
right that that's kind of the limit of

1370
00:52:12,309 --> 00:52:09,839
what you can say

1371
00:52:14,790 --> 00:52:12,319
but the the purpose of

1372
00:52:16,790 --> 00:52:14,800
putting this one paper out

1373
00:52:20,150 --> 00:52:16,800
wasn't so much to say here's something

1374
00:52:22,870 --> 00:52:20,160
remarkable but it was to say here's how

1375
00:52:25,190 --> 00:52:22,880
you publish a paper like this

1376
00:52:26,630 --> 00:52:25,200
here's how you don't jump to conclusions

1377
00:52:29,430 --> 00:52:26,640
as to what it means

1378
00:52:30,829 --> 00:52:29,440
here's how you just say

1379
00:52:33,990 --> 00:52:30,839
i have the

1380
00:52:36,230 --> 00:52:34,000
data you can believe the data

1381
00:52:38,710 --> 00:52:36,240
come up with a conclusion yourself if

1382
00:52:39,670 --> 00:52:38,720
you think you have the answer it's a

1383
00:52:41,990 --> 00:52:39,680
puzzle

1384
00:52:44,630 --> 00:52:42,000
waiting to be solved

1385
00:52:46,950 --> 00:52:44,640
uh and so but it was also to show that

1386
00:52:47,750 --> 00:52:46,960
you can do it

1387
00:52:49,270 --> 00:52:47,760
and

1388
00:52:51,910 --> 00:52:49,280
publish these kinds of things get them

1389
00:52:55,270 --> 00:52:51,920
through peer review and not be ridiculed

1390
00:52:57,829 --> 00:52:55,280
for it as long as you strip stick to

1391
00:53:00,630 --> 00:52:57,839
certain scientific strictures

1392
00:53:02,069 --> 00:53:00,640
about how you do it

1393
00:53:04,230 --> 00:53:02,079
you have to become you have to be

1394
00:53:05,910 --> 00:53:04,240
bulletproof i mean mentally you have to

1395
00:53:08,549 --> 00:53:05,920
become bulletproof and because i still

1396
00:53:10,870 --> 00:53:08,559
have plenty of my colleagues who you

1397
00:53:12,150 --> 00:53:10,880
know twitter about it you know you know

1398
00:53:14,549 --> 00:53:12,160
but then

1399
00:53:18,150 --> 00:53:14,559
interestingly more and more

1400
00:53:18,950 --> 00:53:18,160
i was uh i was just in um

1401
00:53:25,109 --> 00:53:18,960
in

1402
00:53:27,109 --> 00:53:25,119
came up to me and said gary i've been

1403
00:53:30,069 --> 00:53:27,119
reading about your involvement in all of

1404
00:53:32,390 --> 00:53:30,079
this that's really cool

1405
00:53:33,910 --> 00:53:32,400
right that's totally cool and

1406
00:53:35,589 --> 00:53:33,920
why is it cool

1407
00:53:38,230 --> 00:53:35,599
because the next thing out of their

1408
00:53:40,069 --> 00:53:38,240
mouths is yeah i saw this all this stuff

1409
00:53:41,910 --> 00:53:40,079
in the new york times about these pilots

1410
00:53:44,230 --> 00:53:41,920
who've seen things and these

1411
00:53:45,510 --> 00:53:44,240
congressional inquiries that are about

1412
00:53:47,910 --> 00:53:45,520
to happen

1413
00:53:49,430 --> 00:53:47,920
wow you're you know you really seem to

1414
00:53:51,430 --> 00:53:49,440
be on to something

1415
00:53:53,270 --> 00:53:51,440
you know part of me is like well yeah i

1416
00:53:56,870 --> 00:53:53,280
told you so

1417
00:53:58,630 --> 00:53:56,880
but um you know i try to back off from

1418
00:54:00,790 --> 00:53:58,640
self congratulation

1419
00:54:04,150 --> 00:54:00,800
on that but uh

1420
00:54:06,790 --> 00:54:04,160
and so you it's it's a i think lou

1421
00:54:08,230 --> 00:54:06,800
elizondo and chris mellon and a number

1422
00:54:11,109 --> 00:54:08,240
of others behind the scenes who you'll

1423
00:54:13,910 --> 00:54:11,119
probably never get the names of uh who

1424
00:54:16,630 --> 00:54:13,920
have been pushing this forward

1425
00:54:17,990 --> 00:54:16,640
that have opened it up for us in a way

1426
00:54:21,030 --> 00:54:18,000
that

1427
00:54:23,270 --> 00:54:21,040
uh is to me exciting yes there's a lot

1428
00:54:25,750 --> 00:54:23,280
of negative people out there you know

1429
00:54:28,549 --> 00:54:25,760
saying you know oh you guys are a bunch

1430
00:54:31,510 --> 00:54:28,559
of you know it's it's

1431
00:54:33,829 --> 00:54:31,520
faleo do uh you're all a bunch of morons

1432
00:54:37,589 --> 00:54:33,839
this is a waste of time well

1433
00:54:39,910 --> 00:54:37,599
it's my time why does it offend you

1434
00:54:41,750 --> 00:54:39,920
that i'm spending my time on something

1435
00:54:43,030 --> 00:54:41,760
i'm not telling you not to do something

1436
00:54:45,190 --> 00:54:43,040
maybe i should be offended that you're

1437
00:54:48,470 --> 00:54:45,200
spending your time worrying about me

1438
00:54:50,630 --> 00:54:48,480
i'm living rent-free in your head

1439
00:54:53,430 --> 00:54:50,640
you know i mean i i it's just like why

1440
00:54:55,829 --> 00:54:53,440
do you care do it's like it's like they

1441
00:54:57,430 --> 00:54:55,839
have this religious

1442
00:54:59,829 --> 00:54:57,440
box that they want everybody to live

1443
00:55:03,109 --> 00:54:59,839
within and if you step outside of it you

1444
00:55:06,630 --> 00:55:03,119
shall be you're a heretic how dare you

1445
00:55:08,309 --> 00:55:06,640
go away leave me alone do you know gary

1446
00:55:10,069 --> 00:55:08,319
when you talk about people living rent

1447
00:55:11,589 --> 00:55:10,079
free in your head it's funny i have no

1448
00:55:13,349 --> 00:55:11,599
issue with trolls and all that kind of

1449
00:55:15,270 --> 00:55:13,359
stuff i find it quite

1450
00:55:18,069 --> 00:55:15,280
cathartic and almost a hobby to engage

1451
00:55:19,910 --> 00:55:18,079
with them for a while um and we had one

1452
00:55:21,990 --> 00:55:19,920
particular troll on some of the youtube

1453
00:55:23,430 --> 00:55:22,000
live chats who i engaged with and

1454
00:55:25,430 --> 00:55:23,440
eventually they actually emailed me

1455
00:55:26,950 --> 00:55:25,440
privately to say they were sorry for

1456
00:55:29,430 --> 00:55:26,960
trolling so much but the whole idea of

1457
00:55:31,270 --> 00:55:29,440
this ufo phenomenon scares them

1458
00:55:32,789 --> 00:55:31,280
and i was like well that's fine just

1459
00:55:35,190 --> 00:55:32,799
talk about it and but the way it was

1460
00:55:36,630 --> 00:55:35,200
manifesting was to sit on chats of

1461
00:55:39,990 --> 00:55:36,640
various interviews with people like

1462
00:55:42,069 --> 00:55:40,000
yourself and slate the subject

1463
00:55:43,430 --> 00:55:42,079
but actually they did have an interest

1464
00:55:45,589 --> 00:55:43,440
but they just don't know how to express

1465
00:55:46,870 --> 00:55:45,599
that which i found quite interesting

1466
00:55:49,750 --> 00:55:46,880
people just have to take that kind of

1467
00:55:51,589 --> 00:55:49,760
step back got it yeah i don't mind those

1468
00:55:52,950 --> 00:55:51,599
kinds of people it's the professional

1469
00:55:54,630 --> 00:55:52,960
trolls

1470
00:55:57,030 --> 00:55:54,640
that um

1471
00:55:58,950 --> 00:55:57,040
that bother me uh i mean it doesn't

1472
00:56:03,910 --> 00:55:58,960
bother me it's like but why

1473
00:56:05,109 --> 00:56:03,920
why are you bothered yeah um it uh it's

1474
00:56:07,670 --> 00:56:05,119
it just seems

1475
00:56:09,109 --> 00:56:07,680
like they've got nothing better to do

1476
00:56:11,190 --> 00:56:09,119
that they feed

1477
00:56:13,430 --> 00:56:11,200
on this negativity

1478
00:56:14,870 --> 00:56:13,440
uh and to me it's like look dude you

1479
00:56:17,990 --> 00:56:14,880
need to you need to go see a

1480
00:56:22,710 --> 00:56:20,710
well listen gary next week on the 17th

1481
00:56:24,870 --> 00:56:22,720
of may i think it'll be the day after

1482
00:56:26,390 --> 00:56:24,880
this interview is released congress is

1483
00:56:28,549 --> 00:56:26,400
conducting hearings regarding

1484
00:56:30,630 --> 00:56:28,559
unidentified aerial phenomenon what

1485
00:56:33,270 --> 00:56:30,640
would you personally like to hear asked

1486
00:56:35,670 --> 00:56:33,280
at those hearings

1487
00:56:38,069 --> 00:56:35,680
i would like to hear

1488
00:56:40,630 --> 00:56:38,079
um about something actually that chris

1489
00:56:42,470 --> 00:56:40,640
mellon just tweeted uh

1490
00:56:45,030 --> 00:56:42,480
i'm actually in a another conversation

1491
00:56:47,270 --> 00:56:45,040
with him right now on another channel

1492
00:56:49,990 --> 00:56:47,280
i'm watching some conversations go on

1493
00:56:51,910 --> 00:56:50,000
um is

1494
00:56:54,470 --> 00:56:51,920
what's the evidence of

1495
00:56:55,510 --> 00:56:54,480
any of this stuff in orbit right we have

1496
00:56:57,670 --> 00:56:55,520
lots of

1497
00:56:59,030 --> 00:56:57,680
sensors up there

1498
00:57:00,549 --> 00:56:59,040
so that's one of the things that should

1499
00:57:02,470 --> 00:57:00,559
be discussed

1500
00:57:05,270 --> 00:57:02,480
um

1501
00:57:07,670 --> 00:57:05,280
what might be a potential agenda of

1502
00:57:09,349 --> 00:57:07,680
these objects right so i mean that's a

1503
00:57:11,030 --> 00:57:09,359
scary thing to start talking about but

1504
00:57:12,950 --> 00:57:11,040
if they're hanging around

1505
00:57:15,910 --> 00:57:12,960
mostly being seen at our nuclear

1506
00:57:16,870 --> 00:57:15,920
facilities that implies

1507
00:57:19,670 --> 00:57:16,880
something

1508
00:57:21,109 --> 00:57:19,680
a little on the let's say the scarier

1509
00:57:23,030 --> 00:57:21,119
side

1510
00:57:26,549 --> 00:57:23,040
um there was another thing that i was

1511
00:57:28,390 --> 00:57:26,559
thinking there that is uh

1512
00:57:30,390 --> 00:57:28,400
oh well it'll come to me but those are

1513
00:57:32,549 --> 00:57:30,400
those are two of the main ones that that

1514
00:57:33,829 --> 00:57:32,559
i want to hear about

1515
00:57:34,950 --> 00:57:33,839
um

1516
00:57:36,789 --> 00:57:34,960
and

1517
00:57:38,789 --> 00:57:36,799
but i also want

1518
00:57:41,030 --> 00:57:38,799
to have at some point a discussion

1519
00:57:43,270 --> 00:57:41,040
around

1520
00:57:45,829 --> 00:57:43,280
what are the opportunities

1521
00:57:48,390 --> 00:57:45,839
you know let's say that whatever this is

1522
00:57:50,470 --> 00:57:48,400
keeps continues to keeps us keep us at

1523
00:57:52,950 --> 00:57:50,480
arm's length

1524
00:57:54,549 --> 00:57:52,960
but has there ever been any attempt at

1525
00:57:57,030 --> 00:57:54,559
communication

1526
00:58:00,069 --> 00:57:57,040
with this and if so what has been the

1527
00:58:01,349 --> 00:58:00,079
interaction what has been the feedback

1528
00:58:03,750 --> 00:58:01,359
you know that's a that's another one and

1529
00:58:07,109 --> 00:58:03,760
then another thing that is i think

1530
00:58:09,670 --> 00:58:07,119
gathering a fair amount of uh

1531
00:58:12,549 --> 00:58:09,680
uh inertia

1532
00:58:16,150 --> 00:58:12,559
is this idea of um

1533
00:58:17,030 --> 00:58:16,160
immunity versus amnesty

1534
00:58:19,109 --> 00:58:17,040
um

1535
00:58:20,870 --> 00:58:19,119
that if we're going to get people to

1536
00:58:23,109 --> 00:58:20,880
come out of the shadows

1537
00:58:24,950 --> 00:58:23,119
there has to be immunity now a friend of

1538
00:58:27,910 --> 00:58:24,960
mine who i talk with a lot he says look

1539
00:58:29,190 --> 00:58:27,920
it can't be amnesty because amnesty is

1540
00:58:30,789 --> 00:58:29,200
you've already been convicted of

1541
00:58:33,829 --> 00:58:30,799
something

1542
00:58:35,990 --> 00:58:33,839
and then you're given amnesty for it no

1543
00:58:37,270 --> 00:58:36,000
you want immunity

1544
00:58:39,030 --> 00:58:37,280
up front so we should stop using the

1545
00:58:41,510 --> 00:58:39,040
word amnesty we should start using the

1546
00:58:44,549 --> 00:58:41,520
word immunity because immunity means

1547
00:58:46,870 --> 00:58:44,559
that you won't be prosecuted

1548
00:58:49,750 --> 00:58:46,880
right but it needs to be a carrot and a

1549
00:58:52,150 --> 00:58:49,760
stick approach right it's immunity if

1550
00:58:54,870 --> 00:58:52,160
you come forward now beyond a certain

1551
00:58:55,910 --> 00:58:54,880
date and if you don't

1552
00:58:58,390 --> 00:58:55,920
now you're going to be stuck in the

1553
00:59:01,750 --> 00:58:58,400
amnesty bucket after you've been

1554
00:59:04,630 --> 00:59:01,760
you know if if necessary uh

1555
00:59:06,230 --> 00:59:04,640
uh basically run through a ringer

1556
00:59:07,829 --> 00:59:06,240
but that's the only way we're going to

1557
00:59:09,349 --> 00:59:07,839
open things up so it has to be an open

1558
00:59:11,270 --> 00:59:09,359
discussion of that

1559
00:59:13,589 --> 00:59:11,280
i was talking to a congressman

1560
00:59:15,190 --> 00:59:13,599
uh just a couple of weeks ago about

1561
00:59:16,710 --> 00:59:15,200
exactly this issue

1562
00:59:20,230 --> 00:59:16,720
and um

1563
00:59:22,870 --> 00:59:20,240
his uh opinion is that that is

1564
00:59:24,630 --> 00:59:22,880
going to have to be done

1565
00:59:26,549 --> 00:59:24,640
gary you've been extremely generous with

1566
00:59:28,789 --> 00:59:26,559
your time i really appreciate it i had

1567
00:59:30,630 --> 00:59:28,799
over 100 listener questions sent in for

1568
00:59:32,789 --> 00:59:30,640
this and that's just the ones i managed

1569
00:59:34,309 --> 00:59:32,799
to get on paper so i would love if in

1570
00:59:35,589 --> 00:59:34,319
the near future you could come back on

1571
00:59:37,270 --> 00:59:35,599
and get through some of those listener

1572
00:59:39,349 --> 00:59:37,280
questions because people had some

1573
00:59:40,870 --> 00:59:39,359
fantastic things to ask you so i

1574
00:59:42,230 --> 00:59:40,880
appreciate how busy you are and

1575
00:59:43,510 --> 00:59:42,240
hopefully we can arrange that for down

1576
00:59:45,030 --> 00:59:43,520
the line

1577
00:59:46,390 --> 00:59:45,040
wonderful and thanks everybody for

1578
00:59:48,150 --> 00:59:46,400
listening i'll come back another time

1579
00:59:49,510 --> 00:59:48,160
and we can go through some of those

1580
00:59:51,589 --> 00:59:49,520
questions

1581
00:59:53,589 --> 00:59:51,599
that is all for this week's show thank

1582
00:59:55,589 --> 00:59:53,599
you very much for listening please

1583
00:59:58,309 --> 00:59:55,599
remember to leave the podcaster review

1584
01:00:00,549 --> 00:59:58,319
on your chosen platform you can like

1585
01:00:02,470 --> 01:00:00,559
retweet and subscribe that would all be

1586
01:00:04,630 --> 01:00:02,480
very much appreciated the shows are

1587
01:00:06,150 --> 01:00:04,640
being uploaded onto youtube as we speak

1588
01:00:08,710 --> 01:00:06,160
more and more you can sign up at

1589
01:00:11,430 --> 01:00:08,720
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1590
01:00:13,589 --> 01:00:11,440
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1591
01:00:16,470 --> 01:00:13,599
please get in touch on twitter facebook

1592
01:00:19,670 --> 01:00:16,480
instagram that ufo podcast of course on

1593
01:00:21,750 --> 01:00:19,680
twitter it's at ufouapam

1594
01:00:24,780 --> 01:00:21,760
and again folks as always keep looking

1595
01:00:47,829 --> 01:00:24,790
up you never know what you might see

1596
01:00:47,839 --> 01:00:51,920
but i'd had some champagne

1597
01:00:51,930 --> 01:01:00,870
[Music]

1598
01:01:14,470 --> 01:01:02,390
i can't imagine how it could have been

1599
01:01:14,480 --> 01:01:22,950
[Music]

1600
01:01:26,630 --> 01:01:24,630
everything was weird and everything was

1601
01:01:35,680 --> 01:01:26,640
red i helped my boys they thought this

1602
01:01:35,690 --> 01:01:50,230
[Music]

1603
01:01:50,240 --> 01:01:55,470
what's that

1604
01:01:55,480 --> 01:02:00,069
[Music]

1605
01:02:00,079 --> 01:02:04,950
for being

1606
01:02:04,960 --> 01:02:09,880
space consider serious lies

1607
01:02:33,120 --> 01:02:30,390
[Music]

1608
01:02:43,390 --> 01:02:33,130
it wasn't

1609
01:03:19,029 --> 01:03:04,020
[Music]

1610
01:03:19,039 --> 01:03:24,030
thank you